Started by Bryan, February 27, 2019, 08:41:22 pm
Quote from: Optimax on February 28, 2019, 02:23:12 pmIt is easy to be saved if:1. You can believe in your innermost being(heart) that God raised Jesus from the dead.2. You can confess with your mouth that Jesus is your Lord (and mean it).It is not as easy to grow spiritually once saved.
Quote from: Bryan on March 01, 2019, 08:54:44 amThis is actually the point of my question. I suppose it depends on believing when salvation happens. If it happens at the point of "conversion" (in most peoples estimation that would be saying the sinners prayer) then I suppose yes it is easy to be saved.I tend to lean more towards salvation as not being received in this life. Thus if we stumble/fall away there is no salvation and in this case salvation is not easy. Sure, believing in Jesus seems easy enough, but that is not always the case. Trials of faith can be very arduous and taxing.
Quote from: Optimax on March 01, 2019, 11:25:23 amIf you are correct then God lied because scripture says;Rom 10:9-119 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.KJV
Quote from: Bryan on March 01, 2019, 04:46:49 pmSure but if a person believes in a moment and is saved, do they then have the right to stop believing but retain salvation?
Quote from: flaglady on February 28, 2019, 02:34:21 pmOh so true, Jim! If an individual's position is that there is no God or He doesn't speak to man, then hearing His voice will be difficult if our ears and hearts are closed. I truly believe that to be the case.
Quote from: Optimax on March 01, 2019, 05:17:01 pmRead those scriptures again. Count the "if's" and " unless" and "or if's"
Quote from: jiminpa on March 01, 2019, 11:03:58 pmGood points all. My initial thoughts agree with you Bryan. The Western church makes the wrapping all too easy. "Say this prayer and you will go to Heaven." I've actually heard that told to little children, as if the prayer itself is salvation. Too often salvation gets presented as "fire insurance," but is that true salvation. Jesus told Jews to eat His flesh and drink His blood, which would have been sacrilege to them, even figuratively. And we have the parable of the sheep and the goats. But then the Bible does say to believe and speak out and you will be saved. I know what showed me my need for something more was the verse about being a new creation. If we are the same after we "get saved" as we were before then I don't think we are saved. We have to consider all that the Bible says about salvation, and it presents it as both easy and difficult, and sometimes even impossible. I think that once we understand in our hearts what salvation really is that confessing it with our mouths is not so easy as it sounds. I could not confess salvation until I was willing for it to change me. This too is a problem I have with reformed theology and cessationism. They've eliminated the Holy Spirit so all they have are marketing concepts, and they have reduced salvation to something they can count. And they have so much fun counting too, usually the same guilt-ridden people every week, and they count them every time, and then hold that number up as a trophy at the pastors' brunches. I don't understand what business church was being all about "salvations" anyway. Church should be for the equipping of the body, so that the body can go out and make disciples, not drag a bunch of sinners into the church so that the body is never discipled. That's my view of it anyway.
Quote from: Bryan on March 02, 2019, 02:02:48 pmCan you just answer?Jesus also said if someone did not abide they would be cast off into the fire.So clearly theres more to it.Dont get me wrong, I agree starting a relationship with Jesus is rather easy. Just believe. But just initiating that relationship, doesnt guarantee anything. Each believer is told to then abide and be fruitful. Several passages state the dangers of unfruitfulness (is that a word?)Judas walked with Jesus yet he fell off.
Quote from: Bryan on March 02, 2019, 06:40:56 pmSo your first comment said its easy to get saved but not easy to grow after. So let me ask you this, or rather rephrase.A plant that doesnt grow, dies. Pretty cut and dry. If a plant isnt growing its because it is dying or has died already.So if we die spiritually because we arent growing (Jesus did liken believers to branches on a vine) do we still receive salvation?IOW, do spiritually dead Christians still get to enjoy eternal life?
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