Started by Bryan, May 30, 2017, 09:07:50 pm
Quote from: flaglady on May 31, 2017, 07:11:43 amMy stance would be that since we are all human and humans are 'born in sin' then no, we cannot be free of sin. It's in out nature. However, this should not prevent us from striving to be sin free nor in rejoicing in the fact that we are washed in the Blood of the Lamb who died to allow us to be able to approach the Almighty directly and not though 'the veil'. Remember, the moment Christ died, the veil was torn in two thus demolishing the Hebrew law that we could not enter thought the veil into Holy of Holies. Perhaps I'm being a bit simplistic in my interpretation, but I've always understood that this means God can accept us in our inherent sinfulness because Christ died for us and this therefore makes your belief neither correct nor incorrect. We are sin, of that there can be no dispute. But Christ enabled us to come to God cleansed of sin. Or maybe I'm just being rather naive!
Quote from: jiminpa on May 31, 2017, 10:17:30 amI think you both make good points, but I lean more towards Bryan's view. We do still stumble, and when we do we have God as our advocate to God, (Jesus is God), and there is no condemnation. We are new creations, (2 Cor 5:17), and no longer slaves to sin, (Romans 6). Light always drives out darkness. I see a difference between sin and sins. We don't live sin, but we still commit sins, (less and less). I see hope that as we become more like Jesus we will be freer from the old nature. Faith is an important part of that. If we expect to continue in sin we fail to grasp that new nature, because it is attained by faith. God is good, if we ask for holiness He enables us, if we will believe and want holiness more than we want to sin. Not that I have arrived.
Quote from: Bryan on June 04, 2017, 08:13:21 pmSo, I'm not trying to be difficult but what then do we make of scripture like those that line the epistle of 1 John"I write to you so that you do not sin."Are those just admonitions that we should strive for but will never experience? Like a goal that we can never reach?I have heard people preach a similar message in which they said, we must be sinless after believing or else we are lost forever. I am not of that crowd. I read the first few verses of 1 John (1:5-2:2) as meaning that any who believe should walk in the light, so much so that they do not sin, but if we do sin we can receive forgiveness. Then we must get back on the right path, and not stray down the path to darkness because any who say they know God and walk in darkness lie, and don't practice the truth.
Quote from: jiminpa on June 05, 2017, 08:16:52 amI think that sums it up pretty well, we don't walk in darkness, and if we do, then we are not really God's, but we may stumble and sin, and then the sacrifice has already been made on our behalf. Faith and grace are the keys. By faith we take hold of the grace to walk in the light. By faith we trust that we are forgiven and get back up and continue in grace to walk again in the light.
Quote from: DiscipleHeLovesToo on June 11, 2017, 10:22:23 amagain; it's important to know which definition of 'sin' applies to that verse - sin as transgression of God's laws, or sin as unbelief.we know from the account of the father with the lunatic son that we can both believe and have unbelief at the same time (Mar 9:24) - belief based on God's word, and unbelief based on the reports of the world and our own 5 senses. all transgressions of the law have been paid for by Jesus' sacrifice for all people for all time from God's perspective, and we know from Paul in Romans 7 that we can't, on our own strength and by our own understanding, obey the multitude of God's laws perfectly as long as we are in flesh bodies that are, by nature, in opposition to God's laws.1Co 15:56 KJV(56) The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.it's all about our focus; if we focus on the law (to improve our performance to the law), we strengthen unbelief as we demonstrate to ourselves our inability to correctly apply the multitude of God's laws in any given situation to avoid transgressing His law, and our fellowship with God based on faith in His grace diminishes as we condemn ourselves for our transgressions of the law. but if we focus on fellowship and yielding to God's leading through His Holy Spirit inside us, our performance to the law will increase as we follow His leading, which is based on His flawless understanding of His law.focus on the law:Jer 10:23 KJV(23) O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.focus on being led by God through fellowship:Psa_37:23 The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD: and he delighteth in his <God's> way. text enclosed in "<>" added by mePsa_37:31 The law of his God is in his heart <are in the leading of the Holy Spirit within him>; none of his steps shall slide. text enclosed in "<>" added by mePsa_119:133 Order my steps in thy word: and let not any iniquity have dominion over me. Pro 4:11-12 KJV(11) I have taught thee in the way of wisdom; I have led thee in right paths.(12) When thou goest, thy steps shall not be straitened; and when thou runnest, thou shalt not stumble.Psa 85:8-13 KJV(8 ) I will hear what God the LORD will speak: for he will speak peace unto his people, and to his saints: but let them not turn again to folly.(9) Surely his salvation is nigh them that fear him; that glory may dwell in our land.(10) Mercy and truth are met together; righteousness and peace have kissed each other.(11) Truth shall spring out of the earth; and righteousness shall look down from heaven.(12) Yea, the LORD shall give that which is good; and our land shall yield her increase.(13) Righteousness shall go before him; and shall set us in the way of his steps.the battle then is not to 'stop all that transgressing', but to be led by His Holy Spirit inside us as confirmed by His revealed written word; the more effective we are at being led by His Holy Spirit, the less we will transgress His laws - as an effortless 'by-product' of following His leading through fellowship, confirming that leading through our knowledge of His revealed written word.Deu_19:15 One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established. if you strive to live by your understanding of God's law, that one witness will condemn you - but this is not what God intended; He intended that His law not be used as a standard to measure your performance against (as this will always lead to self-condemnation as we fail to obey our own flawed understanding of His law), but as additional witnesses to confirm the leading of His Holy Spirit within us. in my own life, all too often i find myself wondering if the leading i'm 'hearing' at the moment is from God, or my enemy the devil (who can make himself appear to be a bright and shining angel) - the more of His written word (that He reveals to me as i meditate on it in fellowship with Him) i pump into my mind, the easier it becomes to recognize whose leading i'm focused on at that moment.Rom 8:13-14 KJV(13) For if ye live after the flesh <live by your own understanding>, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body <through the leading of the Holy Spirit>, ye shall live.(14) For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.text enclosed in "<>" added by me
Quote from: Bryan on June 12, 2017, 10:50:12 amYou see what bugs me greatly about a stance that says "Man can never be perfect on this side of paradise" is the idea that God cannot do something. Of course such a position is true if we try to accomplish it ourselves, even God said that. But none of us were redeemed to be returned to that from which we came.Are we so feeble that we begin by an act of the Holy Spirit to only then return to being kept in God's grace by our own measure?No, God redeemed us from our flesh, by his love, strength, and Spirit. Jesus blood was shed for us to release us from the curse of the flesh. It is in his strength, his bidding, His Spirit that we can and should expect to be delivered from the filth ones of our former selves... IF we let him lead us. And only those who are led by the Spirit of God are children of God Romans 8:14It is almost as if people believe God is able to redeem a sinner, purify him, cleanse him completely, but is unable to keep that same sinner turned Saint from sin.. all sin.No, our God is bigger than that! He is greater than that! He is more loving than that! He only asks that we step out of the way and give him the reins of this chariot we call life.The Exodus was symbolic of the redemption of man. When God rescued Israel from Egypt, he did so with great signs and wonders, we know that. What gets lost in that great story are three verses in Exodus 14:13-15 The Egyptians [Your oppressor the sinful flesh] you see today [before your redemption] you will never see again [they will no longer have control over you]. You need only to be still and let me fight for you [Get out of the way... I got this]The Israelites did absolutely nothing in that episode to secure their redemption, except to obey. Once through the waters of the Red Sea they were secure from Egypt forever. Even though some of them wanted to return because life in egypt was better even with the oppression that came with it. How many times do we hear people say: Doing the wrong thing is easier than the right thing?Bottom line is God has provided a way of escape so that none of his children should ever be oppressed or even have interaction with our sins again. Do we believe that though?
Quote from: Bryan on May 30, 2017, 09:07:50 pmSo in another forum that we all used to frequent quite a bit a topic has become more prevalent that I would like to discuss here.Can a Christian be sin free?Apparently because I believe we can be I am a Pharisee.I just don't see why the Holy Spirit who lives within every believer would say that those who walk with him will not satisfy their fleshly desires (Galatians 5:16).I don't see God wasting breath when he said "Be ye Holy for I am holy." It isn't an arbitrary command. Nor did he say if it is convenient or not too difficult then be holy.Now call me crazy, but I believe with all my heart that the God who tells me do something will give me the ability to do the thing which he says. If I let him.Sorry, I am not trying to rant or ramble but this has become a very passionate topic for me as of late and I just cannot fathom how powerless Christianity has become.Now to be clear, I am not saying if we sin we are lost. I am saying that we must walk in the light as he is in the light, but if we should do as Peter and take our eyes off Jesus and start drowning, he will lift us up and forgive us when we ask him. Then we can continue our fellowship with him.
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