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April 06, 2020, 12:55:34 pm

Free from sin?

Started by Bryan, May 30, 2017, 09:07:50 pm

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Bryan

So in another forum that we all used to frequent quite a bit a topic has become more prevalent that I would like to discuss here.

Can a Christian be sin free?

Apparently because I believe we can be I am a Pharisee.

I just don't see why the Holy Spirit who lives within every believer would say that those who walk with him will not satisfy their fleshly desires (Galatians 5:16).

I don't see God wasting breath when he said "Be ye Holy for I am holy."  It isn't an arbitrary command.  Nor did he say if it is convenient or not too difficult then be holy.

Now call me crazy, but I believe with all my heart that the God who tells me do something will give me the ability to do the thing which he says.  If I let him.

Sorry, I am not trying to rant or ramble but this has become a very passionate topic for me as of late and I just cannot fathom how powerless Christianity has become.

Now to be clear, I am not saying if we sin we are lost.  I am saying that we must walk in the light as he is in the light, but if we should do as Peter and take our eyes off Jesus and start drowning, he will lift us up and forgive us when we ask him.  Then we can continue our fellowship with him.
All glory to him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by shedding his blood for us.  He has made us a Kingdom of priests for God his Father. All glory and power to him forever and ever! Amen.

flaglady

My stance would be that since we are all human and humans are 'born in sin' then no, we cannot be free of sin. It's in out nature. However, this should not prevent us from striving to be sin free nor in rejoicing in the fact that we are washed in the Blood of the Lamb who died to allow us to be able to approach the Almighty directly and not though 'the veil'. Remember, the moment Christ died, the veil was torn in two thus demolishing the Hebrew law that we could not enter thought the veil into Holy of Holies.

Perhaps I'm being a bit simplistic in my interpretation, but I've always understood that this means God can accept us in our inherent sinfulness because Christ died for us and this therefore makes your belief neither correct nor incorrect. We are sin, of that there can be no dispute. But Christ enabled us to come to God cleansed of sin.

Or maybe I'm just being rather naive!

Bryan

Quote from: flaglady on May 31, 2017, 07:11:43 am
My stance would be that since we are all human and humans are 'born in sin' then no, we cannot be free of sin. It's in out nature. However, this should not prevent us from striving to be sin free nor in rejoicing in the fact that we are washed in the Blood of the Lamb who died to allow us to be able to approach the Almighty directly and not though 'the veil'. Remember, the moment Christ died, the veil was torn in two thus demolishing the Hebrew law that we could not enter thought the veil into Holy of Holies.

Perhaps I'm being a bit simplistic in my interpretation, but I've always understood that this means God can accept us in our inherent sinfulness because Christ died for us and this therefore makes your belief neither correct nor incorrect. We are sin, of that there can be no dispute. But Christ enabled us to come to God cleansed of sin.

Or maybe I'm just being rather naive!



Ok, I certainly do understand your reasoning.  I definitely don't espouse the idea that because I think we can be free from sin, if we do sin then God casts us off.  I just look at scriptures that say to be holy and such as an admonition to live free from sin.  It is only possible if we live free from the fleshly nature that died on the cross.  Like Galatians 2:20.

it is nice to be able to talk about these things without people throwing names and judgement!
All glory to him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by shedding his blood for us.  He has made us a Kingdom of priests for God his Father. All glory and power to him forever and ever! Amen.

jiminpa

I think you both make good points, but I lean more towards Bryan's view. We do still stumble, and when we do we have God as our advocate to God, (Jesus is God), and there is no condemnation. We are new creations, (2 Cor 5:17), and no longer slaves to sin, (Romans 6). Light always drives out darkness.

I see a difference between sin and sins. We don't live sin, but we still commit sins, (less and less). I see hope that as we become more like Jesus we will be freer from the old nature. Faith is an important part of that. If we expect to continue in sin we fail to grasp that new nature, because it is attained by faith. God is good, if we ask for holiness He enables us, if we will believe and want holiness more than we want to sin.

Not that I have arrived.
I used to worry and stress and strive to "do my part," never believing that I had done enough of "my part."  Now I see my part as casting it off on Him, doing what I believe He is giving me, and letting it just be His problem.  I don't have to fix everything, but I get to work along side of God.

Bryan

Quote from: jiminpa on May 31, 2017, 10:17:30 am
I think you both make good points, but I lean more towards Bryan's view. We do still stumble, and when we do we have God as our advocate to God, (Jesus is God), and there is no condemnation. We are new creations, (2 Cor 5:17), and no longer slaves to sin, (Romans 6). Light always drives out darkness.

I see a difference between sin and sins. We don't live sin, but we still commit sins, (less and less). I see hope that as we become more like Jesus we will be freer from the old nature. Faith is an important part of that. If we expect to continue in sin we fail to grasp that new nature, because it is attained by faith. God is good, if we ask for holiness He enables us, if we will believe and want holiness more than we want to sin.

Not that I have arrived.


Yeah, so it is like John wrote in his first epistle.

We either walk in light or we walk in darkness.

Some people interpret that to mean we are always in one or the other, but that just isn't the case.  It simply means our lifestyle reflects light (holiness) or darkness (sin).  Just as God is light, we too are to be light, that is actually the only way to have fellowship with God and be cleansed completely from sin.

John acknowledges though that sin will come, 1 John 1:9.  But the goal of every believer should be "that we do not sin" 1 John 2:1

That is how I read it anyway.  That life is only possible by walking with the Spirit (Galatians 5:16-25)

Such an important topic in my opinion, thanks for the contributions everyone!  :)
All glory to him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by shedding his blood for us.  He has made us a Kingdom of priests for God his Father. All glory and power to him forever and ever! Amen.

DiscipleHeLovesToo

Gal 5:16 KJV
(16)  This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

i think what this is saying is that if you're led by God ('walk in the Spirit'), you won't be led by your flesh - this isn't the same thing in my mind as not satisfying the desires of the flesh.   the Holy Spirit won't led you to commit adultery (lust of the flesh), but He will lead you to eat well (desire of the flesh)

Lev 20:6-7 KJV
(6)  And the soul that turneth after such as have familiar spirits, and after wizards, to go a whoring after them, I will even set my face against that soul, and will cut him off from among his people.
(7)  Sanctify yourselves therefore, and be ye holy: for I am the LORD your God.

to me, God is saying that to sanctify yourself (or separate yourself) from devil worship is to be holy as He is holy.  this is not the same thing as never transgressing His law - you can transgress His law out of ignorance of it and how to apply it, and still have no desire to worship the devil

1Jn_3:4  Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Rom_14:23  And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith <believing God> is sin.
text enclosed in "<>" added by me

Jas_4:17  Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

while a Christian can't be free from transgressing God's law in actions while in a flesh body (due to ignorance of His law and how to apply it), a Christian can be free of not believing God's law is correct - you can't be free from sin where the meaning of 'sin' is to transgress His law, but you can be free from sin where the definition of 'sin' is not believing Him ('not of faith')

so as Christians, we aren't supposed to focus on reducing transgression of His law, but rather to focus on being led by the Spirit - because the Spirit of God will never lead us to not believe God, or transgress His law.  striving to be led by God will automatically result in less transgressions of His law as we grow in our ability to recognize His leading; striving to reduce transgressions of His law by our own understanding of it will automatically result in more transgressions as we focus on the law:

1Co 15:56 KJV
(56)  The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

it's all about what you focus on - the law and your performance to it, or the leading of the Holy Spirit
Joh 17:3  And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Bryan

Interesting!  Thank you!
All glory to him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by shedding his blood for us.  He has made us a Kingdom of priests for God his Father. All glory and power to him forever and ever! Amen.

Bryan

So, I'm not trying to be difficult but what then do we make of scripture like those that line the epistle of 1 John

"I write to you so that you do not sin."

Are those just admonitions that we should strive for but will never experience?  Like a goal that we can never reach?

I have heard people preach a similar message in which they said, we must be sinless after believing or else we are lost forever.  I am not of that crowd.  I read the first few verses of 1 John (1:5-2:2) as meaning that any who believe should walk in the light, so much so that they do not sin, but if we do sin we can receive forgiveness.  Then we must get back on the right path, and not stray down the path to darkness because any who say they know God and walk in darkness lie, and don't practice the truth.
All glory to him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by shedding his blood for us.  He has made us a Kingdom of priests for God his Father. All glory and power to him forever and ever! Amen.

jiminpa

Quote from: Bryan on June 04, 2017, 08:13:21 pm
So, I'm not trying to be difficult but what then do we make of scripture like those that line the epistle of 1 John

"I write to you so that you do not sin."

Are those just admonitions that we should strive for but will never experience?  Like a goal that we can never reach?

I have heard people preach a similar message in which they said, we must be sinless after believing or else we are lost forever.  I am not of that crowd.  I read the first few verses of 1 John (1:5-2:2) as meaning that any who believe should walk in the light, so much so that they do not sin, but if we do sin we can receive forgiveness.  Then we must get back on the right path, and not stray down the path to darkness because any who say they know God and walk in darkness lie, and don't practice the truth.
I think that sums it up pretty well, we don't walk in darkness, and if we do, then we are not really God's, but we may stumble and sin, and then the sacrifice has already been made on our behalf. Faith and grace are the keys. By faith we take hold of the grace to walk in the light. By faith we trust that we are forgiven and get back up and continue in grace to walk again in the light. 
I used to worry and stress and strive to "do my part," never believing that I had done enough of "my part."  Now I see my part as casting it off on Him, doing what I believe He is giving me, and letting it just be His problem.  I don't have to fix everything, but I get to work along side of God.

DiscipleHeLovesToo

Quote from: Bryan on June 04, 2017, 08:13:21 pm
So, I'm not trying to be difficult but what then do we make of scripture like those that line the epistle of 1 John

"I write to you so that you do not sin."

Are those just admonitions that we should strive for but will never experience?  Like a goal that we can never reach?

I have heard people preach a similar message in which they said, we must be sinless after believing or else we are lost forever.  I am not of that crowd.  I read the first few verses of 1 John (1:5-2:2) as meaning that any who believe should walk in the light, so much so that they do not sin, but if we do sin we can receive forgiveness.  Then we must get back on the right path, and not stray down the path to darkness because any who say they know God and walk in darkness lie, and don't practice the truth.


again; it's important to know which definition of 'sin' applies to that verse - sin as transgression of God's laws, or sin as unbelief.

we know from the account of the father with the lunatic son that we can both believe and have unbelief at the same time (Mar 9:24) - belief based on God's word, and unbelief based on the reports of the world and our own 5 senses.  all transgressions of the law have been paid for by Jesus' sacrifice for all people for all time from God's perspective, and we know from Paul in Romans 7 that we can't, on our own strength and by our own understanding, obey the multitude of God's laws perfectly as long as we are in flesh bodies that are, by nature, in opposition to God's laws.

1Co 15:56 KJV
(56)  The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

it's all about our focus; if we focus on the law (to improve our performance to the law), we strengthen unbelief as we demonstrate to ourselves our inability to correctly apply the multitude of God's laws in any given situation to avoid transgressing His law, and our fellowship with God based on faith in His grace diminishes as we condemn ourselves for our transgressions of the law.  but if we focus on fellowship and yielding to God's leading through His Holy Spirit inside us, our performance to the law will increase as we follow His leading, which is based on His flawless understanding of His law.

focus on the law:

Jer 10:23 KJV
(23)  O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

focus on being led by God through fellowship:

Psa_37:23  The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD: and he delighteth in his <God's> way.
text enclosed in "<>" added by me

Psa_37:31  The law of his God is in his heart <are in the leading of the Holy Spirit within him>; none of his steps shall slide.
text enclosed in "<>" added by me

Psa_119:133  Order my steps in thy word: and let not any iniquity have dominion over me.

Pro 4:11-12 KJV
(11)  I have taught thee in the way of wisdom; I have led thee in right paths.
(12)  When thou goest, thy steps shall not be straitened; and when thou runnest, thou shalt not stumble.

Psa 85:8-13 KJV
(8 )  I will hear what God the LORD will speak: for he will speak peace unto his people, and to his saints: but let them not turn again to folly.
(9)  Surely his salvation is nigh them that fear him; that glory may dwell in our land.
(10)  Mercy and truth are met together; righteousness and peace have kissed each other.
(11)  Truth shall spring out of the earth; and righteousness shall look down from heaven.
(12)  Yea, the LORD shall give that which is good; and our land shall yield her increase.
(13)  Righteousness shall go before him; and shall set us in the way of his steps.


the battle then is not to 'stop all that transgressing', but to be led by His Holy Spirit inside us as confirmed by His revealed written word; the more effective we are at being led by His Holy Spirit, the less we will transgress His laws - as an effortless 'by-product' of following His leading through fellowship, confirming that leading through our knowledge of His revealed written word.

Deu_19:15  One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.

if you strive to live by your understanding of God's law, that one witness will condemn you - but this is not what God intended; He intended that His law not be used as a standard to measure your performance against (as this will always lead to self-condemnation as we fail to obey our own flawed understanding of His law), but as additional witnesses to confirm the leading of His Holy Spirit within us.  in my own life, all too often i find myself wondering if the leading i'm 'hearing' at the moment is from God, or my enemy the devil (who can make himself appear to be a bright and shining angel) - the more of His written word (that He reveals to me as i meditate on it in fellowship with Him) i pump into my mind, the easier it becomes to recognize whose leading i'm focused on at that moment.

Rom 8:13-14 KJV
(13)  For if ye live after the flesh <live by your own understanding>, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body <through the leading of the Holy Spirit>, ye shall live.
(14)  For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
text enclosed in "<>" added by me
Joh 17:3  And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

DiscipleHeLovesToo

Quote from: jiminpa on June 05, 2017, 08:16:52 am
I think that sums it up pretty well, we don't walk in darkness, and if we do, then we are not really God's, but we may stumble and sin, and then the sacrifice has already been made on our behalf. Faith and grace are the keys. By faith we take hold of the grace to walk in the light. By faith we trust that we are forgiven and get back up and continue in grace to walk again in the light.


and since we won't have perfect understanding of His written word in this life (as the renewing of the mind never gets completed while we're in a flesh body), it is inevitable that we will transgress His laws through ignorance of how to apply the multitude of His laws - but as long as our hearts are set to be led by Him (rather than to achieve perfection in performance to His law), we won't commit the 'sin (transgression) unto death', which is to reject fellowship with Him based on faith in His grace alone - and this sin is actually absolute total unbelief (or willful refusal to believe any part of His word, resulting in self-worship) - so all transgressions of His law are at their root a refusal to believe Him, as Jesus not only paid the price for all our transgressions, but God has imputed or given by mercy and grace the perfect righteousness of Jesus to us - so that there is now therefore no condemnation toward us (the reborn in Christ) from God.

Rom 8:1-6 KJV
(1)  There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
(2)  For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
(3)  For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
(4)  That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
(5)  For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
(6)  For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

focus on our performance in the flesh to God's laws is 'mindfulness of the flesh'; focus on perceiving and following His leading as confirmed by His revealed written word is 'mindfulness of the Spirit'.

Joh 17:3  And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Bryan

Quote from: DiscipleHeLovesToo on June 11, 2017, 10:22:23 am
again; it's important to know which definition of 'sin' applies to that verse - sin as transgression of God's laws, or sin as unbelief.

we know from the account of the father with the lunatic son that we can both believe and have unbelief at the same time (Mar 9:24) - belief based on God's word, and unbelief based on the reports of the world and our own 5 senses.  all transgressions of the law have been paid for by Jesus' sacrifice for all people for all time from God's perspective, and we know from Paul in Romans 7 that we can't, on our own strength and by our own understanding, obey the multitude of God's laws perfectly as long as we are in flesh bodies that are, by nature, in opposition to God's laws.

1Co 15:56 KJV
(56)  The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

it's all about our focus; if we focus on the law (to improve our performance to the law), we strengthen unbelief as we demonstrate to ourselves our inability to correctly apply the multitude of God's laws in any given situation to avoid transgressing His law, and our fellowship with God based on faith in His grace diminishes as we condemn ourselves for our transgressions of the law.  but if we focus on fellowship and yielding to God's leading through His Holy Spirit inside us, our performance to the law will increase as we follow His leading, which is based on His flawless understanding of His law.

focus on the law:

Jer 10:23 KJV
(23)  O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps.

focus on being led by God through fellowship:

Psa_37:23  The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD: and he delighteth in his <God's> way.
text enclosed in "<>" added by me

Psa_37:31  The law of his God is in his heart <are in the leading of the Holy Spirit within him>; none of his steps shall slide.
text enclosed in "<>" added by me

Psa_119:133  Order my steps in thy word: and let not any iniquity have dominion over me.

Pro 4:11-12 KJV
(11)  I have taught thee in the way of wisdom; I have led thee in right paths.
(12)  When thou goest, thy steps shall not be straitened; and when thou runnest, thou shalt not stumble.

Psa 85:8-13 KJV
(8 )  I will hear what God the LORD will speak: for he will speak peace unto his people, and to his saints: but let them not turn again to folly.
(9)  Surely his salvation is nigh them that fear him; that glory may dwell in our land.
(10)  Mercy and truth are met together; righteousness and peace have kissed each other.
(11)  Truth shall spring out of the earth; and righteousness shall look down from heaven.
(12)  Yea, the LORD shall give that which is good; and our land shall yield her increase.
(13)  Righteousness shall go before him; and shall set us in the way of his steps.


the battle then is not to 'stop all that transgressing', but to be led by His Holy Spirit inside us as confirmed by His revealed written word; the more effective we are at being led by His Holy Spirit, the less we will transgress His laws - as an effortless 'by-product' of following His leading through fellowship, confirming that leading through our knowledge of His revealed written word.

Deu_19:15  One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established.

if you strive to live by your understanding of God's law, that one witness will condemn you - but this is not what God intended; He intended that His law not be used as a standard to measure your performance against (as this will always lead to self-condemnation as we fail to obey our own flawed understanding of His law), but as additional witnesses to confirm the leading of His Holy Spirit within us.  in my own life, all too often i find myself wondering if the leading i'm 'hearing' at the moment is from God, or my enemy the devil (who can make himself appear to be a bright and shining angel) - the more of His written word (that He reveals to me as i meditate on it in fellowship with Him) i pump into my mind, the easier it becomes to recognize whose leading i'm focused on at that moment.

Rom 8:13-14 KJV
(13)  For if ye live after the flesh <live by your own understanding>, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body <through the leading of the Holy Spirit>, ye shall live.
(14)  For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.
text enclosed in "<>" added by me


With this great explanation from you I honestly think we may just be at a misunderstanding.  Let me be clear:

I in no way believe we should strive or even can ever achieve sinlessness apart from the Holy Spirit.  To do so would relegate me to no less than a Pharisee or Jew from old times.

It is only by God's Spirit that we can expect to walk perfect in His ways.  Galatians 5:16 speaks of this abundantly, Walk by the Spirit and you will not fulfill the desires of the flesh.  Each and every child of God should have that verse memorized and seek to live it out daily.  By the Holy Spirit we can live free from sin and we should expect it. 

But some (I am not saying you so please don't misunderstand)... some would rather focus on our flesh and say that being sinless is not possible in this lifetime.  I actually agree with such people, and they are a vast majority in the church unfortunately.  I agree with them only from a certain point of view.  If we look to ourselves and our own power or ability to live according to God's law we will fail, this is what romans 7 is all about.

But the story didn't stop at Romans 7, Paul says in Romans 8 the victory over sin and the flesh is found through the Holy Spirit.  And we can live free from that bondage and walk Holy and pure before God as we yield ourselves to the Spirit.

Matthew 19:26 , "Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible."
All glory to him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by shedding his blood for us.  He has made us a Kingdom of priests for God his Father. All glory and power to him forever and ever! Amen.

Bryan

You see what bugs me greatly about a stance that says "Man can never be perfect on this side of paradise" is the idea that God cannot do something.  Of course such a position is true if we try to accomplish it ourselves, even God said that.  But none of us were redeemed to be returned to that from which we came.

Are we so feeble that we begin by an act of the Holy Spirit to only then return to being kept in God's grace by our own measure?

No, God redeemed us from our flesh, by his love, strength, and Spirit.  Jesus blood was shed for us to release us from the curse of the flesh.  It is in his strength, his bidding, His Spirit that we can and should expect to be delivered from the filth ones of our former selves... IF we let him lead us.  And only those who are led by the Spirit of God are children of God Romans 8:14

It is almost as if people believe God is able to redeem a sinner, purify him, cleanse him completely, but is unable to keep that same sinner turned Saint from sin.. all sin.

No, our God is bigger than that!  He is greater than that!  He is more loving than that!  He only asks that we step out of the way and give him the reins of this chariot we call life.

The Exodus was symbolic of the redemption of man.  When God rescued Israel from Egypt, he did so with great signs and wonders, we know that.  What gets lost in that great story are three verses in Exodus 14:13-15‬

The Egyptians [Your oppressor the sinful flesh] you see today [before your redemption] you will never see again [they will no longer have control over you].  You need only to be still and let me fight for you [Get out of the way... I got this]

The Israelites did absolutely nothing in that episode to secure their redemption, except to obey.  Once through the waters of the Red Sea they were secure from Egypt forever.  Even though some of them wanted to return because life in egypt was better even with the oppression that came with it.  How many times do we hear people say: Doing the wrong thing is easier than the right thing?

Bottom line is God has provided a way of escape so that none of his children should ever be oppressed or even have interaction with our sins again.  Do we believe that though?
All glory to him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by shedding his blood for us.  He has made us a Kingdom of priests for God his Father. All glory and power to him forever and ever! Amen.

DiscipleHeLovesToo

Quote from: Bryan on June 12, 2017, 10:50:12 am
You see what bugs me greatly about a stance that says "Man can never be perfect on this side of paradise" is the idea that God cannot do something.  Of course such a position is true if we try to accomplish it ourselves, even God said that.  But none of us were redeemed to be returned to that from which we came.

Are we so feeble that we begin by an act of the Holy Spirit to only then return to being kept in God's grace by our own measure?

No, God redeemed us from our flesh, by his love, strength, and Spirit.  Jesus blood was shed for us to release us from the curse of the flesh.  It is in his strength, his bidding, His Spirit that we can and should expect to be delivered from the filth ones of our former selves... IF we let him lead us.  And only those who are led by the Spirit of God are children of God Romans 8:14

It is almost as if people believe God is able to redeem a sinner, purify him, cleanse him completely, but is unable to keep that same sinner turned Saint from sin.. all sin.

No, our God is bigger than that!  He is greater than that!  He is more loving than that!  He only asks that we step out of the way and give him the reins of this chariot we call life.

The Exodus was symbolic of the redemption of man.  When God rescued Israel from Egypt, he did so with great signs and wonders, we know that.  What gets lost in that great story are three verses in Exodus 14:13-15‬

The Egyptians [Your oppressor the sinful flesh] you see today [before your redemption] you will never see again [they will no longer have control over you].  You need only to be still and let me fight for you [Get out of the way... I got this]

The Israelites did absolutely nothing in that episode to secure their redemption, except to obey.  Once through the waters of the Red Sea they were secure from Egypt forever.  Even though some of them wanted to return because life in egypt was better even with the oppression that came with it.  How many times do we hear people say: Doing the wrong thing is easier than the right thing?

Bottom line is God has provided a way of escape so that none of his children should ever be oppressed or even have interaction with our sins again.  Do we believe that though?


God has told us to focus on being led by Him through fellowship rather than focus on avoiding transgressions of His law; Jesus took back the authority that God gave man over the earth (Gen 1:26) and that all men yield to the devil, and when we are reborn in Christ, He gives us back that authority that the Israelites in Exodus didn't have - He doesn't move independent of people who believe Him and are reborn in Christ today because He works through them now the way He worked through Jesus - He doesn't tell us to get out of the way, because He's in us now - He handles things through us rather than independent of us as we stand by and watch from a distance

God has dealt with all transgressions of the law through Jesus, and is not 'imputing' transgressions of the law to anyone today (because Jesus dealt with them all at the cross) - His focus is on fellowship with us and not our performance to the law - isn't this the example we should follow as well?
Joh 17:3  And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

LittleRocketBoy

I believe the potential is there. The new man is there... sinless and the righteousness of Christ. The flesh remains and the mind must be there. But I believe all the tools are there.
Until then... confess your sin, trust your advocate, He if faithful and just to forgive you and cleanse  you of all unrighteousness.

Quote from: Bryan on May 30, 2017, 09:07:50 pmSo in another forum that we all used to frequent quite a bit a topic has become more prevalent that I would like to discuss here.

Can a Christian be sin free?

Apparently because I believe we can be I am a Pharisee.

I just don't see why the Holy Spirit who lives within every believer would say that those who walk with him will not satisfy their fleshly desires (Galatians 5:16).

I don't see God wasting breath when he said "Be ye Holy for I am holy."  It isn't an arbitrary command.  Nor did he say if it is convenient or not too difficult then be holy.

Now call me crazy, but I believe with all my heart that the God who tells me do something will give me the ability to do the thing which he says.  If I let him.

Sorry, I am not trying to rant or ramble but this has become a very passionate topic for me as of late and I just cannot fathom how powerless Christianity has become.

Now to be clear, I am not saying if we sin we are lost.  I am saying that we must walk in the light as he is in the light, but if we should do as Peter and take our eyes off Jesus and start drowning, he will lift us up and forgive us when we ask him.  Then we can continue our fellowship with him.