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"Organic" foods?

Started by JTM³, June 10, 2015, 02:54:59 pm

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DiscipleHeLovesToo


you're right that the Bible does not say that God told David to use a sling and stones against Goliath - but does the Bible say that David made this choice to use a sling and stones against Goliath independent of God?  do you ever miss it when you think you know what your wife wants?  if so, do you think it's ok with God when you make your own decision and miss what He wants?  (i know you don't btw)


the analogies of how husbands and wives or parents and children relate to each other break down when applied to the all-knowing Creator of everything - look at the temptation of Jesus:


Mat 4:3-10 KJV
(3)  And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
(4)  But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
(5)  Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,
(6)  And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
(7)  Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
(8 )  Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
(9)  And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
(10)  Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.


in each case of the temptation of Jesus, the devil was trying to get Him to make a decision outside of the leading of God, and one not based on God's word (satan twisted the scriptures he quoted), but on His own human intellect



if you don't base what you believe on scripture, are you living by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God?


when you make your own decisions about what His word means without basing your decision on His word, do you not tempt the Lord your God?


who do you worship and serve  when you make your own decisions; God, or you?


the Bible could have said 'the path of a good man is chosen by the Lord',  or 'o Lord, i know that the way of a man is partially within himself: but it is not within man that walketh to choose his path'  or 'For as many as are led by the Spirit of God in the big decisions, they are the sons of God' - but it doesn't.



Joh 5:19 KJV
(19)  Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.



Joh 12:49-50 KJV
(49)  For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
(50)  And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.


if Jesus is our example, and He neither did nor said anything without God's direction, should we be different?


do you have any clear scripture to stand on for your beliefs?
Joh 17:3  And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Pete

Quote from: DiscipleHeLovesToo on June 21, 2015, 07:45:09 am
you're right that the Bible does not say that God told David to use a sling and stones against Goliath - but does the Bible say that David made this choice to use a sling and stones against Goliath independent of God?


You're asking me to prove a negative, which cannot be done. The Bible does not say that David made his choice at the direction of God, that much is clear. I suppose you can speculate that God led David to take a sling and a stone, but it does not say that.

Quote from: DiscipleHeLovesToo on June 21, 2015, 07:45:09 am
do you ever miss it when you think you know what your wife wants?


Sure. But the deeper our relationship grows, the less I miss it. She also extends grace to me, because she knows my heart.

Quote from: DiscipleHeLovesToo on June 21, 2015, 07:45:09 am
if so, do you think it's ok with God when you make your own decision and miss what He wants?


OK? Not really. But I think God is full of grace and He knows my heart is to be pleasing to Him. As my Father, He is quite capable of disciplining me and as my relationship with Him grows, the less I miss it.

Quote from: DiscipleHeLovesToo on June 21, 2015, 07:45:09 am
the analogies of how husbands and wives or parents and children relate to each other break down when applied to the all-knowing Creator of everything


I disagree.

I was once accused of "anthropomorphizing" God in a discussion many years ago because I drew a comparison between God and a father and a child. But it was Jesus who first called God "Father". He said He would return for his "bride". These are comparisons that Jesus made. Why would Jesus say our relationship with Him and the Father were analogous to a marriage relationship and that of a father and a child if they were insufficient to communicate that relationship? I believe Jesus used the word "Father" intentionally to bring to mind the relationship between a child and a parent, something we all can understand. I believe this is also why it is of vital importance for me as my children's father to show them the natural love of a father so that they can more easily understand and comprehend the Love of our Heavenly Father. But that's another topic...


Quote from: DiscipleHeLovesToo on June 21, 2015, 07:45:09 am
- look at the temptation of Jesus:

Mat 4:3-10 KJV
(3)  And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
(4)  But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.
(5)  Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,
(6)  And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
(7)  Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.
(8 )  Again, the devil taketh him up into an exceeding high mountain, and sheweth him all the kingdoms of the world, and the glory of them;
(9)  And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.
(10)  Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

in each case of the temptation of Jesus, the devil was trying to get Him to make a decision outside of the leading of God, and one not based on God's word (satan twisted the scriptures he quoted), but on His own human intellect


Speaking of analogies that fall apart  ;) , I do not believe that the temptation of Jesus Christ is in any way analogous to the decision about what I should have for lunch.

Quote from: DiscipleHeLovesToo on June 21, 2015, 07:45:09 am
if you don't base what you believe on scripture, are you living by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God?


But who said I wasn't basing what I believe on scripture? We're talking about what we should or shouldn't eat for snack tonight, not life-altering decisions.

Quote from: DiscipleHeLovesToo on June 21, 2015, 07:45:09 am
when you make your own decisions about what His word means without basing your decision on His word, do you not tempt the Lord your God?

who do you worship and serve  when you make your own decisions; God, or you?


See, I used to say things like this also. Then God showed me something. What we believe about scripture is based on our understanding of it. IOW, while I wholeheartedly believe that what I believe is based soundly on scripture and I can happily explain to you why, I also realize that my understanding of scripture is not pure. It is tainted by my experiences, teachings I've heard, my upbringing, and the list goes on. Everything that we read in scripture is filtered through those things, no matter how much we would like to believe that it's not.

Having that shown to me, I debate with people differently now. That's why you will constantly see me post "I believe..." and explain to you why instead of saying "The Bible says..." All I can do is tell you what I believe and why I believe it.

God has blessed me with intellect. I have been blessed with a sound reasoning process. But I don't take credit for that. That's the way God made me. I don't believe that God gave me this intellect to have it sit dormant inside of me. I believe He intends for me to use it for His glory.

It seems to me like you're attempting to make it sound like if you make your own decision on whether to eat a doughnut or not, you're tempting God and glorifying yourself. I honestly don't mean to be rude but I find that completely nonsensical. God has given us a free will, and while I follow Him in all that I do, I honestly don't think he cares whether I eat a doughnut or not.

Now there was a time where I was excessively drinking Mountain Dew. The caffeine in the drink was affecting my heart and I was having heart palpitations in my early 20's. God told me to stop drinking Mountain Dew for a time. And when I did, my heart palpitations stopped. But there came a time when the "all clear" came. I learned my lesson. And today I can drink Mountain Dew in moderation, in a way that does not negatively affect my heart. God spoke to me and told me what I needed to change. I listened. I learned. I grew. God gets all the glory for that. All I did was obey what He told me to do.

Quote from: DiscipleHeLovesToo on June 21, 2015, 07:45:09 am
the Bible could have said 'the path of a good man is chosen by the Lord',  or 'o Lord, i know that the way of a man is partially within himself: but it is not within man that walketh to choose his path'  or 'For as many as are led by the Spirit of God in the big decisions, they are the sons of God' - but it doesn't.

Joh 5:19 KJV
(19)  Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.

Joh 12:49-50 KJV
(49)  For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
(50)  And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

if Jesus is our example, and He neither did nor said anything without God's direction, should we be different?

do you have any clear scripture to stand on for your beliefs?


I'm not here to try and convince you what I believe is true. While I have not posted scripture and verse, I have made multiple references to scripture in what I'm saying. There are plenty of instances throughout scripture where people acted and it is not recorded that they received direction from God on how to act or what to do, yet God was with them and blessed them.

The story of David and Goliath illustrates through what scripture says (vs. what we might speculate) that David did not receive direction from God to use a sling and a stone when facing Goliath. David took action with something that he knew and God blessed it.

O0
"There is no charge for awesomeness -- or attractiveness."

jiminpa

Quote from: Pete on June 22, 2015, 06:58:43 pm
The story of David and Goliath illustrates through what scripture says (vs. what we might speculate) that David did not receive direction from God to use a sling and a stone when facing Goliath. David took action with something that he knew and God blessed it.

O0
Actually Pete the Bible doesn't say that he didn't consult God.  It just doesn't say either way.  I think you are both making good points. 

I'm enjoying both perspectives. 
I used to worry and stress and strive to "do my part," never believing that I had done enough of "my part."  Now I see my part as casting it off on Him, doing what I believe He is giving me, and letting it just be His problem.  I don't have to fix everything, but I get to work along side of God.

Pete

Quote from: jiminpa on June 22, 2015, 08:44:11 pm
Actually Pete the Bible doesn't say that he didn't consult God.  It just doesn't say either way.


I agree that it doesn't explicitly state that he didn't consult God. I should have worded that better. What I meant to say is that scripture does not record David receiving direction from God to take a sling and a stone.

One perspective would speculate that David consulted with God before facing Goliath. The other perspective would speculate that because David was familiar with a sling and a stone, that's why he used them. But you are correct that it is not explicitly stated either way in scripture.

I tend to believe that when things are not explicitly stated one way or the other in scripture, they just aren't that important to the story. I believe the point of David and Goliath is that we must face the giants in our lives, even when it looks hopeless, knowing that God is with us.

O0
"There is no charge for awesomeness -- or attractiveness."

DiscipleHeLovesToo

Pete, i guess i'm just not smart enough to see the implied scripture in your posts here; you certainly have an understanding that is different from mine - yet without specific scripture i see no way for us to reach a mutual understanding.  i get the impression that's just fine with you.


somehow we seem to rub each other the wrong way - but i still want God's love to flow through me to you, regardless of what your intentions are toward me, if any even exist.



Joh 17:3  And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Pete

I can assure you that I have nothing against you. I am passionate and blunt, and I'm sure that often comes across differently than I intend. I do not intend to rub you the wrong way., nor do I feel rubbed the wrong way by you. We just don't agree on this topic, and that's fine by me.

I have been through enough online debates to know when it's time to call it quits. We've both shared what we believe and there really is nothing more for me to say on the topic that I haven't already said.

No ought, no hard feelings, we just disagree.

O0
"There is no charge for awesomeness -- or attractiveness."