December 17, 2018, 04:33:18 AM

persecution

Started by DiscipleHeLovesToo, October 05, 2014, 09:59:13 AM

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DiscipleHeLovesToo

ok; we disagree about some things that impact how we perceive persecution. 


the meaning of 'the sovereignty of God' is something i've debated with many people, and i believe it is so important that it deserves it's own thread:

'sovereignty of God' vs man's free will - who's really in control in the earth?[/color][/font][/size]'


Katana - please feel free to post further clarification of your understanding of the meaning of the 'sovereignty of God' in that thread so we don't loose the focus on persecution in this one.


Bryan - i think the verse you offered is more clear when taken as a complete statement:



1Pe 4:1-2 KJV
(1)  Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;
(2)  That he no longer should live the rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to the will of God.


so while suffering (because of persecution) is unavoidable for those 'who live to the will of God', this is not to say that suffering is necessary in order to know or do the will of God.
Joh 17:3  And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

Bryan

I didn't mean that we have to suffer to know the will of God, so I apologize if that's the way it comes across.

Suffering should be part of the Christian walk though.  If one never encounters resistance, then we can be sure they never took a step of faith in obedience.

2 Timothy 3:12  And indeed, all those who want to live in a godly manner in Christ Jesus will be persecuted.

Paul is only talking about living a godly life, nothing about evangelism or the likes.

Now suffering is not always being stoned, or physically assaulted.  It has many forms, sometimes we may not even be aware we are suffering until the suffering is over.

But persecution/suffering should not distract us from the mission of the life God gave us.  To testify of his Son.

I think what Peter was getting at, again my opinion, is that those who reach the point of being willing to suffer for the name of Jesus have reached the point of being sold out for Christ.  There is no going back for them to the life of sin and flesh.  They have truly crossed over from death to life because such a thing is really saying no to your flesh (which hates suffering and persecution) and yes to the Spirit.
All glory to him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by shedding his blood for us.  He has made us a Kingdom of priests for God his Father. All glory and power to him forever and ever! Amen.

Pete

I sometimes wonder if there are Christians that go looking for persecution so they can wear it as a badge of honor. I mean, I fully agree that as we follow Christ, persecution will come, but I think there is a marked difference between being persecuted for following after Christ vs. being persecuted for being a jerk. ;)

O0
"There is no charge for awesomeness -- or attractiveness."

Bryan

Dont get me wrong, I agree.  Some people act like knuckleheads then brag about persecution.  Persecution that is deserved is not persecution at all.  But truly living a godly life will result in persecution for the simple reason that light and darkness can not coexist peacefully.
All glory to him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by shedding his blood for us.  He has made us a Kingdom of priests for God his Father. All glory and power to him forever and ever! Amen.

DiscipleHeLovesToo

Quote from: Bryan on January 03, 2015, 12:05:48 PM
I didn't mean that we have to suffer to know the will of God, so I apologize if that's the way it comes across.

Suffering should be part of the Christian walk though.  If one never encounters resistance, then we can be sure they never took a step of faith in obedience.

2 Timothy 3:12  And indeed, all those who want to live in a godly manner in Christ Jesus will be persecuted.

Paul is only talking about living a godly life, nothing about evangelism or the likes.

Now suffering is not always being stoned, or physically assaulted.  It has many forms, sometimes we may not even be aware we are suffering until the suffering is over.

But persecution/suffering should not distract us from the mission of the life God gave us.  To testify of his Son.

I think what Peter was getting at, again my opinion, is that those who reach the point of being willing to suffer for the name of Jesus have reached the point of being sold out for Christ.  There is no going back for them to the life of sin and flesh.  They have truly crossed over from death to life because such a thing is really saying no to your flesh (which hates suffering and persecution) and yes to the Spirit.



while i agree with you about resistance being a part of the Christian walk, suffering is a choice not based on circumstances.  you can have all your needs met, walk in divine health, be at peace with everyone, and still suffer from fear of judgment.  suffering is not the result of circumstances, but of wrong focus - focus on the flesh instead of the Spirit.  Paul found himself in the bottom of a prison after being whipped earlier that day; and yet his focus was so singularly on God's goodness that he was able to sing praise to God in the midst of circumstances that most people would be suffering greatly in. 
Joh 17:3  And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

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