December 17, 2018, 05:23:27 AM

How much does God know

Started by Foadle, February 10, 2014, 04:23:55 PM

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Foadle

This was an interesting discussion had at a Christian business meeting and thought I would post here for further discussion.  Does God know what our decisions are going to be before we make them?

Pete

Interesting question.

The Bible says that before we were formed in the womb, God knew us. The implications of this are broader than that though. That means that before we were even conceived, God knew we would be born. This logically means that He must also have known that our parents would choose to conceive us even before they did.

I don't know if God knows all of our decisions before we make them, but I also don't think anything takes Him by surprise either.

O0
"There is no charge for awesomeness -- or attractiveness."

Yitzchak

    I think the answer is yes and no. What I mean is that there are different types of knowing or experiencing. Now granted  this is speculation on my part , but I figure that we are made in the image of God. It is one thing to know something intellectually and another to go through it. I think God has emotions.

  So what I am saying is that God knows that things are going to happen before they do , but I think God also experiences things with us when they happen.

  I don;t want to overdo it  because in many ways God is not like us . He is unique.  But I was thinking of it like this. I knew about my wedding before it happened. We planned it out ahead of time. But the day I got married I experienced it in a different way then just knowing it was going to happen.

   Just a theory.
To know him and to make him known

jiminpa

He has revealed the end from the beginning.  To reveal the end He would have to know the end.  It is futile for we finite minded humans to try to understand God's mind in our own terms.  The only outcome is that we make God small enough for us to understand.  My point in saying that is not to discourage discussion but to point out that as big as we can try to grasp, God is still infinitely more intelligent and knowledgeable. 
I used to worry and stress and strive to "do my part," never believing that I had done enough of "my part."  Now I see my part as casting it off on Him, doing what I believe He is giving me, and letting it just be His problem.  I don't have to fix everything, but I get to work along side of God.

Foadle

Okay devils advocate then Jim because I believed as you but now I'm not so sure it is that black and white.  I don't have access to a bible at moment (my lunch break) but then why just before the flood was God grieved that he had made man.  If you knew what was going to happen why would you do something that would grieve you later?

jiminpa

I've thought about it before and I don't know.  It may be one of those areas where God has to put His ways into our terms.  It may be that I'm just too finite to understand.   Either way I'm perfectly okay with the realization that as smart as I think I am, I'm still a tiny little finite human with a tiny little finite human brain.  Yeah, God really is that big. 
I used to worry and stress and strive to "do my part," never believing that I had done enough of "my part."  Now I see my part as casting it off on Him, doing what I believe He is giving me, and letting it just be His problem.  I don't have to fix everything, but I get to work along side of God.

Pete


Quote from: Yitzchak on February 10, 2014, 05:58:43 PM
I don;t want to overdo it  because in many ways God is not like us . He is unique.  But I was thinking of it like this. I knew about my wedding before it happened. We planned it out ahead of time. But the day I got married I experienced it in a different way then just knowing it was going to happen.

   Just a theory.


That's an interesting analogy. I've never really thought of it like that before, so you've given me something to ponder.

Like Jim, I'm not sure that we'll ever fully understand God's omniscience this side of heaven, but it is an interesting discussion.

O0
"There is no charge for awesomeness -- or attractiveness."

Foadle

Okay, so now that I'm home I've had a chance to more than just skim this. Yitzchack, I think you might be on to something there.  You knew, or believed you did, that at your wedding your bride would say yes but you really did not know what was going through he'd mind and there for the outplaying of what you know is a deeper level and different kind of knowing. But then David said that God knows every word on our tongue before we express it and so this is where it starts getting confusing. As Jim said, our finite minds struggle - still, makes interesting discussion

bill16652

My belief has always been that because of Gods foreknowledge we are predestined, by our choices, not because we are robots.  Jesus was known back in the garden when God spoke to the serpent so yes, I believe that God knows it all.

Optimax

Of course He does.

He knows you better than you know yourself.

Does He not live in you as well.

He knows but He does not make the decision for you.

If you are listening though He will advise you.

DiscipleHeLovesToo


Jer 19:5-6 KJV
(5)  They have built also the high places of Baal, to burn their sons with fire for burnt offerings unto Baal, which I commanded not, nor spake it, neither came it into my mind:
(6)  Therefore, behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that this place shall no more be called Tophet, nor The valley of the son of Hinnom, but The valley of slaughter.



Jer 32:35 KJV
(35)  And they built the high places of Baal, which are in the valley of the son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire unto Molech; which I commanded them not, neither came it into my mind, that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.




this is a very interesting statement - it seems to say that God didn't know the depths of wickedness that man would fall into.  to me this doesn't imply that He couldn't have known, but chose not to dwell on wickedness, but rather on relationship.
Joh 17:3  And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

bill16652

God knows all, Jesus and the plan of salvation was from the bvery foundation of the world so He may not dwell on sin but He definitely knows it

Foadle

It is just such a deep question and there does appear scripture to support both concepts: he is all knowing; yet it never came into his mind that people would do stuff.  Is it possible that we are looking at the question all wrong and there is another dynamic of which we either haven't considered or are totally unaware of because of our humanity?

Stratguy

This is an interesting topic and I've pondered over what I believe about this. Like as has been said there's no direct scripture I know of, but this is just *my* feeling on the matter - I could well be wrong!

God knows the end from the beginning, He is the Alpha and Omega, the Lamb was 'slain from the foundation of the world'.

Do I believe that God knows every single thing that every single person / atom in the universe will be doing a billion years in the future?

Yes.

However it really does look to me like God expresses surprise or anger or joy etc - as if He didn't know what was going to happen - so what's going on?

Well we hear everyone say 'God is outside of time'. It sounds impressive and knowledgable but is it? Give me a scripture? You can't.

I believe that God is bounded by time the way we are. Even God cannot change the past.

Although He knows the future, He chooses to experience the emotion of time on a moment by moment basis. In other words as we experience pain and hurt then He is right there experiencing it with us in that moment. He isn't saying 'O yes three billion years ago I saw your pain and experienced it in the past so now I don't feel anything'.

No, I believe He is with us in every moment and experiencing the emotion of that moment.

Could be complete nonsense but I'm fairly happy in my mind with thinking this way...


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