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I was fooled, so were millions of Christians

Started by DiscipleWhomJesusLoves, August 24, 2008, 03:17:10 am

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DiscipleWhomJesusLoves

August 24, 2008, 03:17:10 am Last Edit: August 24, 2008, 03:39:25 am by DiscipleWhomJesusLoves
I don?t know if I should post this, but I believe the people here are mature enough to handle it the right way. (I would never post this on CF for obvious reasons) Basically, I want to see what we can learn from this.

Well, sad to say, there has been another ?fall? or should I say ?fraud? in the charismatic world.

How many of you know about Mike Guglielmucci? He was a pastor with Planetshakers church (and a musician on the famous Planetshakers band) and was the one who wrote the recent hit song ?Healer?.

It?s a really beautiful song about Jesus being our healer. He said he wrote it right after his doctor told him that he had an aggressive blood cancer.

The song was performed live in Hillsong Church, Acer Arena, Sydney, at one of their concerts and recorded as one of their latest DVD albums. I bought that album becos of Mike?s song. He performed with an oxygen tube in his nose and oxygen tank by his side. Many people were in tears when the song was being sung.

You can download the song DVD from here to see and hear what I mean:

http://www.savefile.com/files/1726325


Well, it has just been discovered that the whole thing was a hoax. Mike has admitted that he does not have cancer. He?s been stripped of his status as a pastor, of course, and is now undergoing counseling. It seems that even his wife and kids were fooled. Hillsong church, btw, is the largest church in Australia. They were obviously fooled and I think they are going to have to re-edit their DVD becos it even contains an interview with Mike about his sickness. When Darlene Zschech was in our church recently leading worship, she told us about Mike and we sang his song. I don't think we'll be singing it from now on.

I was upset when I heard the news. A little angry. Why? Becos I am going thru a valley of sickness myself (it?s been more than 1.5years) and I?ve prayed for him 2 or 3 times when I couldn?t sleep. I?ve also told my family members and friends about him, showed them the DVD song etc,telling them how brave he was to have performed despite his pain. In a sense, he was like an inspiration to me. That?s why I was upset when I heard that he faked the whole thing.

I'm no longer upset. Just really curious why he would do such a thing. I mean, he was doing well, famous, etc. Why pull such an elaborate hoax?

What can we learn from this? I?m not here to bash Mike. You know me. But is there something we can learn?

btw: You can read about the news here:
http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,24212817-5006301,00.html
http://weblog.revelife.com/revelife/671253156/update-pastor-michael-guglielmucci-ordered-to-report-to-the-police.html

DiscipleWhomJesusLoves

Here are the lyrics. It's truly a beautiful song.


You hold my every moment
Calm my raging sea
You walk with me through fire
And heal all my disease

Pre-chorus:
I trust in You
I trust in You

Chorus:
I believe that You?re my Healer
I believe that You are all I need
I believe that You?re my Fortune
I believe that You?re more than enough for me
Jesus, You?re all I need

Bridge:
For nothing is impossible for You
Nothing is impossible
For nothing is impossible for You
For You hold my world in Your hands

The Lord is my banner

I didn't listen to the song, but just hearing the story brought tears.

I don't know what must be in a person's heart to do such a thing, it's utterly incomprehensible.  Obviously the sign of a terrible, terrible wounding so deep inside, so bad that it allowed the enemy to twist up his entire moral compass.   

How vastly beyond desperate a man must feel for comfort, relief, affirmation that he even matters to anyone, to have cruelly disregarded even his family and jettisoned every value he ever had to seek relief from this pain.  He sounds like a man who doesn't even have a clue who he is.

I don't suppose we can learn anything at all from this other than to deepen our own trust in God and to know that there is a world of unacknowledged pain behind the eyes of the people we meet,  often even the ones we look up to.


flaglady

I had a friend once who did something very similar. Got everyone's sympathy and support - big time. But it all turned out to be a hoax and she ended up very alone, shamed and bitter.

Don't know what they think the outcome will be - how they think it will ever NOT come out. Fact of the matter is, I think, these people DON'T think, they live in the moment and have to concept of the fallout of their actions, either for themselves, the people they scam or, where applicable, the organisations they represent. Kindest thing one can say is they must be very wounded people to go to such lengths to get attention and sympathy.

DiscipleWhomJesusLoves

Well, one thing I learnt is not to put my eyes on man but Christ alone, who never disappoints or plays you out.

I think I was hurt becos I was sort of like proud of Mike -- wow, he's bearing all the pain, so brave -- at the same time I pitied him. My focus was somewhat on him and what he was doing.

I should have looked to Christ instead, who was the One who bore all our pain and sicknesses at the cross. The One who braved hell to saved us.


At the same time, I also wondered why God never told anyone, like give some leader a vision or word that it's all fake. I mean this whole thing lasted for like almost 2 years.

I think God was giving him chance after chance to stop it, which he finally did by making a statement. I also think God doesn't really like to go around telling other people about your secret sins. Even if He does, it's usu a one to one private confrontation.

I pray for Mike and his family, I pray that God will sort things out, restore this man, so that he can continue doing what he was called to do.

DianeL

Quote from: DiscipleWhomJesusLoves on August 24, 2008, 05:36:19 am


I pray for Mike and his family, I pray that God will sort things out, restore this man, so that he can continue doing what he was called to do.


I agree with you here, beautiful lyrics to this song.
34
A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another.
35
By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another. John 13

Hisgirl

My daughter was just in Australia.

She watched Mike perform this song with the oxygen tubes and everything.  It really struck her and she insisted I buy the CD/DVD.  We watch these songs and listen all the time as the whole performance is astounding. 

Thank you for giving us this news Andrew (right name I think )   

For me, the words mean that much more now.  God really IS this man's healer.  Not for an attack on his body, but for an attack in his mind.  Sue is right.  He must have a deep wound to feel the need to embrace a lie.  He needs God's healing touch and love with much support from his body of believers.  They were right to remove him from a leadership role, but I hope the attitude is one of care and not abandonment.

Mike needs prayers of healing right now.
"It's better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it."  My Mama

sharonl

Quote from: DiscipleWhomJesusLoves on August 24, 2008, 05:36:19 am
Well, one thing I learnt is not to put my eyes on man but Christ alone, who never disappoints or plays you out.

I think I was hurt becos I was sort of like proud of Mike -- wow, he's bearing all the pain, so brave -- at the same time I pitied him. My focus was somewhat on him and what he was doing.

I should have looked to Christ instead, who was the One who bore all our pain and sicknesses at the cross. The One who braved hell to saved us.


At the same time, I also wondered why God never told anyone, like give some leader a vision or word that it's all fake. I mean this whole thing lasted for like almost 2 years.

I think God was giving him chance after chance to stop it, which he finally did by making a statement. I also think God doesn't really like to go around telling other people about your secret sins. Even if He does, it's usu a one to one private confrontation.

I pray for Mike and his family, I pray that God will sort things out, restore this man, so that he can continue doing what he was called to do.


YOu know sometimes we hear from God but because everyone else is so engrossed in the happenings that it must be true, so we just sorta calm ourselves down and say it just must be my thinking.

That happened to me with the TB movement - I tried and tried to get into it - tuned into it several times, kept asking God why can't I absorb what is going on like everyone else - for months I thought something was wrong with me, when all along the Holy Spirit was trying to keep my mind straight as to what is happening.

Some people probably knew, but refused to say anything because they felt like they would be the one that was wrong.

We don't know why some things go on so long, except for the reason you quoted of putting our eyes on the wrong person - God allows us to be fooled sometimes because we don't listen to the Holy Spirit, but it shows us our errors and teaches us a lesson.
Diamonds From Heaven - help for the hurting heart
http://gentle.org/sites/diamonds/
Beautiful gifts - the men love them http://chopsknives.com

Alpine

As long as the Steelers themes smileys exist so shall my protest last!

Tina

What I find most amazing is that - even tho a faker and in sin - God still used him!  To touch millions with the beauty of that song, ministering to so many.

When you hear so many bashing TB and Lakeland saying "See!  It never was of God!", it is baffling.  God uses donkeys and fools (and sinful man) all the time.   

Proverbs 14:4 says:  Where no oxen are, the trough is clean; But much increase comes by the strength of an ox.   To me, that means if we want the power, the gifts, the moving of God, we have to put up with some of the wackiness that humans bring.  I'd rather clean up a bit after some whackos than to have nothing of Him.


I have read God's Generals (http://www.amazon.com/Gods-Generals-They-Succeeded-Failed/dp/0883689448) many times, the stories of the greats in the pentecostal movement.  Gosh, those people were each screwed up in some way (some in many ways!)...   addictions, affairs, kidnappings, divorces, heresies.   Even the man who wrote the book was found later on in one of the abominable sins.

Yet God................... He still moved in spite of it all. 

Renee

I never heard of him before till now. And yes faking it like that he does need a healing in his mind.

But still. That song holds truth. He is our healer.
THE DEFINITION OF REVIVAL

1. Falling in love with Jesus all over again

2. Having the Joy of your salvation restored

sharonl

Like Tina said in another thread - God can use rocks and donkey - God gave him the talent - He can use it wherever HE wants. The song still blesses and will continue to.
Diamonds From Heaven - help for the hurting heart
http://gentle.org/sites/diamonds/
Beautiful gifts - the men love them http://chopsknives.com

map4

Quote from: sharonl on August 24, 2008, 09:05:06 am


YOu know sometimes we hear from God but because everyone else is so engrossed in the happenings that it must be true, so we just sorta calm ourselves down and say it just must be my thinking.

That happened to me with the TB movement - I tried and tried to get into it - tuned into it several times, kept asking God why can't I absorb what is going on like everyone else - for months I thought something was wrong with me, when all along the Holy Spirit was trying to keep my mind straight as to what is happening.

Some people probably knew, but refused to say anything because they felt like they would be the one that was wrong.

We don't know why some things go on so long, except for the reason you quoted of putting our eyes on the wrong person - God allows us to be fooled sometimes because we don't listen to the Holy Spirit, but it shows us our errors and teaches us a lesson.


Sharon, thanks for saying this. It is exactly how I felt and wondered if anyone else felt the same way.

LittleRocketBoy

People just get caught up in their own mind. After a while they rationalize why it would be ok to do what they do. They rationalize that the cause is so important that it validates the fraud. In this case, they rationalized that getting people saved, healed, etc was worth it.
They are human.
But the thing is, I do not feel fooled. What he did or did not do did not affect me at all. Personally I do not care.
Who did it hurt?

DiscipleWhomJesusLoves

Thanks for your kind inputs. Let's not be discouraged when one of our brethren fall, let's just lean more on God's grace, grow into maturity (innocent as doves, wise as serpents) and pray for the one who has fallen. The enemy after all is not flesh and blood but the devil and his devices.

I also watched all the videos on God's Generals, produced by Roberts Liardon.  One thing that struck me was that almost all of them, awesome as they were in ministry, screwed up one way or another at some point in their lives, some even to their death, but God still used them and their giftings cont'd to flow.

Mother Etter and Kathryn Khulman's marriages failed. Wigglesworth, went back into business for a time and locked his wife out of the house one night. Dowie thot that he was Elijah towards the end. John G Lake's children hated him for always being in the missions field and neglecting them, etc, etc.

Even Roberts Liardon, who said that the reason he produced the vids was so that we could learn from their mistakes and not commit the same mistakes, sadly, fell into sin (I won't mention what it was).

And I'm always reminded, if God can use a donkey... ha ha

I will continue to listen to the song, but I will keep my eyes on the Healer.

I was reminded in church yesterday that when Balaam wanted to curse the Israelites, God turned his words into a blessing, saying, "I have NOT beheld iniquity in Jacob." Was there iniquity in their camp? You bet! The Israelites were always complaining and murmuring, and Moses just finished calling them a stiff necked people. But from God's perspective, up there on the mountain (in the heavens), He DID NOT see their sins. It's not that they had no sins, He did not see them!

Not only that, later when Balaam tried to curse again from another mountain, he ended up seeing the vision of the Almighty -- the Israelites were like trees planted by the rivers. He saw their beauty.

IOW, not only did God not see their SIN, He saw their BEAUTY too!

Isn't that the two-fold work of Christ? Not only has He taken away our sins (sin offering), He also imputed to us His righteousness (burnt offering)!!!

May we all see from God's perspective at all times. :)

DiscipleWhomJesusLoves

Here's a follow up on the news regarding Mike Guglielmucci, for your info.



http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,24230912-5006301,00.html



He tells why and what's been going on in the past 16 years. It's a sad story. He really needs God's grace and restoration.

Hisgirl

Bless him Lord.  And bless his family.  This man needs a huge revelation of love. 
"It's better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it."  My Mama

cryofthenation

I was wondering whether or not to post this a couple of days ago.

I guess I didn't due to the usual "discussion" that went on over at a certain other place. Thanks guys for restoring my trust in my brothers and sisters.

Yeah, Mike screwed up big time, but I pray that he is restored to God and that God finds a way to restore the trust and ministry he had. Planet shakers, where he was based is an awesome youth church apparently (largest youth church in australia!) and we need to pray Gods healing into their lives too. This must be so hard for them. I saw the news report on the net the other night and was so blessed by the reaction of thier congregation, each one interviewed (including his dad!) said that whilst they were shocked and hurt they also forgave him and hoped he could get the help and restoration he needs. Awesome.

Lord bless them all, restore mike to you, help him sort out his life, may he become an awesome testemony of how you can fix anyone!

As an aside, the song is awesome, don't let it go just because the guy fell! It's still an awesome song which God is using within His church for His purposes.

Praise God that even in events like these He still works for His Glory!

:rejoice:


Oh, by the way. There's another one on the way!

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1049285/Coded-diary-reveals-secret-sex-scandal-haunted-Methodist-founder-Charles-Wesley.html?printingPage=true


Apparently Charles Wesley has now been accused of a sex scandal!!! (Mind you at least the story admits that it was just an accusation!)


What ever next? Adam accused of stealing food?

:jawdrop:


God Bless

Simon

Alpine

Interesting read Simon! Who knows if it was true or not, it was fascinating that Wesley coded his diary!
As long as the Steelers themes smileys exist so shall my protest last!

jeolmstead

Part of wisdom is learning that we can be fooled. We Christians are generally the most gullible people in the world. Because, for the most part we try to do good. We can't imagine that one of our own would stand before us and purposely lie.

It happens, and then the lies get passed around by those who have no way of knowing. This is why it is important to have our own testimony. Too often we try to live on someone else's

You can only really know those you serve with. A song, A TV program, Some stranger who comes to town and fills up a meeting hall with a bunch of other strangers; these things lend themselves to the problem. Body ministry is knowing where you serve and those you serve with.

John O.