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Started by LittleRocketBoy, August 23, 2008, 09:21:19 pm

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Tina

Quote from: Sarah on August 23, 2008, 09:28:28 pm
I guess the stickler there for me is, did they believe in their heart?  There are a lot of people who go through the motions.   



This is pretty right on, in my opinion, Sarah.

How often have we heard of a pastor or minister who finally gets REALLY saved after 30-40 years in ministry?  They had mental assent but not heart assent.

When we are out on the street with the homeless we see these folks who know the Word and can quote it like Billy Graham.  They say they love Him, yet nothing in the way they live their lives show any fruit of being converted. 

Often one of them will say the sinner's prayer with someone from our group.  It has always bothered me when everyone jumps for joy and says "alleluia" afterward, especially when the person was drunk or drugged up when they said it OR we come back the next week and nothing has changed.

IT HAS TO BE A HEART THING!


(I personally and truly believe there are going to be fewer people in heaven than we expect.)

LittleRocketBoy

Quote from: Sarah on August 23, 2008, 10:40:37 pm
Are you getting a sense in your Spirit that something isn't right?


I am always weary of addressing such things to people. On the one hand you are concerned and you want to be there... but I never want to take away that which they do have. I don't know if that makes sense or not..

LittleRocketBoy

Ya... you guys are right... of course.
But this person really thinks they have it. They are postive. Been "saved" for 40 years or so. If you ask him, he will have no doubt that his heart is right.
But do you know? How do you know? How can you tell the difference between the assurance of the heart and the convinced mind?

Quote from: Tina on August 23, 2008, 10:44:25 pm



This is pretty right on, in my opinion, Sarah.

How often have we heard of a pastor or minister who finally gets REALLY saved after 30-40 years in ministry?  They had mental assent but not heart assent.

When we are out on the street with the homeless we see these folks who know the Word and can quote it like Billy Graham.  They say they love Him, yet nothing in the way they live their lives show any fruit of being converted. 

Often one of them will say the sinner's prayer with someone from our group.  It has always bothered me when everyone jumps for joy and says "alleluia" afterward, especially when the person was drunk or drugged up when they said it OR we come back the next week and nothing has changed.

IT HAS TO BE A HEART THING!


(I personally and truly believe there are going to be fewer people in heaven than we expect.)

Sarah

Quote from: LittleRocketBoy on August 23, 2008, 10:46:24 pm


I am always weary of addressing such things to people. On the one hand you are concerned and you want to be there... but I never want to take away that which they do have. I don't know if that makes sense or not..


Intercession is a powerful thing.  Maybe your witness will stir the desires in their heart for a more intimate relationship with the Father?


Grace is a more than we could ever imagine...and I am expecting nothing less that what He has said in his word.  I sure have needed it on more than one occasion.  I just want to let God do His thing and make sure I'm doing what he called me to do.   
Embraced by the loving arms of the Father....

churchlady

Quote from: LittleRocketBoy on August 23, 2008, 09:21:19 pm
Do you think it is possible to go through an alter call, confess Christ, attempt to live the Christian life... for many years.
And not be born again?

At age 12 I went down the isle to receive Christ and was soon water baptized.  I thought of myself as a christian and tried to be good for many years.

I was not born again until age 28.  Didn't know such an experience existed 'til then.

The difference between the two experiences is that one gave me soulish comfort while the other birthed me into a new realm.
De Oppresso Liber

Sarah

churchlady you are SUPER!
Embraced by the loving arms of the Father....

Wordsmith

I guess I believe in total predestination. Out of our control. I know that there is much in scripture about the word "chosen". But Gods grace will extend to the one that wants to be saved. When I was "called" or "chosen" if both exist,  I was a nine year old girl that felt, leterally felt a gut wrenching twist in my gut that someone was tugging me or literally dragging me in by my pigtails to meet God. I didn't do anything but hear an invitation from a minister weeks later, but that inward drawing was so real to me weeks before I had heard the message, and literally felt like I had haply fell into the arms of God.  I couldn't even sleep. I know that everyone's conversion is different but this is what convienced me about predestination. But He will also save those that call upon the name of the Lord. So maybe it's not either or, about being called, and chosen but both exist.
Be as loving as the Truth allows, even if it's
mis-interpreted,
because everyone  you meet is fighting
some kind of battle.

charityagape

I think that everyone is called like that..........not exactly like that...........but everyone at some time feels an enternal pull towards God, but that some go to great lengths to reject that pull.

LittleRocketBoy

Thank you for shaing WS.
Blessings
Dids
Quote from: Wordsmith on August 23, 2008, 11:11:52 pm
I guess I believe in total predestination. Out of our control. I know that there is much in scripture about the word "chosen". But Gods grace will extend to the one that wants to be saved. When I was "called" or "chosen" if both exist,  I was a nine year old girl that felt, leterally felt a gut wrenching twist in my gut that someone was tugging me or literally dragging me in by my pigtails to meet God. I didn't do anything but hear an invitation from a minister weeks later, but that inward drawing was so real to me weeks before I had heard the message, and literally felt like I had haply fell into the arms of God.  I couldn't even sleep. I know that everyone's conversion is different but this is what convienced me about predestination. But He will also save those that call upon the name of the Lord. So maybe it's not either or, about being called, and chosen but both exist.

LittleRocketBoy

So how do you think God responds to such a person?
Here he is. He thinks he is saved. Been "living for God" the best he can for many years.
Does God communicate with Him? Would God in any way bless or show himself to him and in so doing confirm the man's illusion? Would God lead him on by blessing him?

Wordsmith

August 24, 2008, 12:49:43 am #30 Last Edit: August 24, 2008, 10:32:14 pm by Wordsmith
Quote from: LittleRocketBoy on August 23, 2008, 11:23:55 pm
So how do you think God responds to such a person?
Here he is. He thinks he is saved. Been "living for God" the best he can for many years.
Does God communicate with Him? Would God in any way bless or show himself to him and in so doing confirm the man's illusion? Would God lead him on by blessing him?



I may not be understanding your post, Dids, but God blesses the unthankful and evil too. So I don't know if I would gage my understanding of am I saved because I have been blessed. It's the knowing that we have been changed from old creatures into new ones. Our inward focus has been made towards God and what He is like through the Holy Spirit.  Old  things that interested us is faded into oblivion, and all things are new,  and we will desire a relationship with Him. There should be a thirst just to know Him..and He doesn't deny that.  He already knows our hearts, and still wants us as His friends. I've heard people say that the Word of God and the Spirit of God are the same. To me the Holy Spirit is the personality of God that we have fellowship with, and the Word is the Truth of that Personality.
Be as loving as the Truth allows, even if it's
mis-interpreted,
because everyone  you meet is fighting
some kind of battle.

sharonl

The Bible says that all who call upon My name shall be saved. (Of course if it is just words - I don't consider that calling upon the name)

A lot of it is in our upbringing - I've been a Christian all my life - but never had the joy of the Lord until I was studying about the Holy Spirit (didn't know anything about gifts, speaking in tongues, etc) - I just laid the book down and said "God if this is of you, I want it" - that was 15 years ago - I have never been the same. The HOly Spirit fell on me with speaking in tongues and I cannot explain the Blessing from that.

Now those other many, many years I felt as if I was a Christian, but I never had the personal relationship with Jesus that I have now.

There are many who do not know this relationship and unless you grew up in it, you would not recognize it. I did everything I thought I should do, never missed church - but never had the joy either.

Maybe they just need to talk about the HOly Spirit - maybe they just do not understand the joy is there just by asking for it.
Diamonds From Heaven - help for the hurting heart
http://gentle.org/sites/diamonds/
Beautiful gifts - the men love them http://chopsknives.com

8 iron

Quote from: LittleRocketBoy on August 23, 2008, 09:21:19 pm
Do you think it is possible to go through an alter call, confess Christ, attempt to live the Christian life... for many years.
And not be born again?


Not sure it's not all that uncommon myself, but then again, I'm kind of in a judgmental mood this week-end. But yes, I think it's possible and I think it happen.

8 iron

Quote from: Sarah on August 23, 2008, 09:28:28 pm
That's a very interesting question.  I guess the stickler there for me is, did they believe in their heart?  There are a lot of people who go through the motions.  Still pondering that one....


+1

LittleRocketBoy

Thanks everyone.

Here is the clincher.

What about yourself?

Wordsmith

August 24, 2008, 10:43:42 pm #35 Last Edit: August 25, 2008, 09:35:18 am by Wordsmith
Quote from: LittleRocketBoy on August 24, 2008, 08:47:50 pm
Thanks everyone.

Here is the clincher.

What about yourself?


Well the one thing that I can say about myself on this, I had to learn over and over again, NOT to trust how I feel.. especially about wheather I am saved or not. Feelings is so temporary..they can change from day to day.. And that seemed to mess up the fellowship He and I have.. I have to have confidence that God saved me as He said He did in His Word. That confidence in what He said, makes it easier to have that fellowship. How can you have fellowship if you don't believe what He did and promised was done unto you? And having the witness of the Holy Spirit abiding in you,  is what is able to give us that kind of confidence.
Be as loving as the Truth allows, even if it's
mis-interpreted,
because everyone  you meet is fighting
some kind of battle.

flaglady

Good words, Wordsmith!

As for myself, way back when a new Christian and deep in the throes of mourning, I got so upset and filled with despair one night, I actually threw my bible across the room!
It fell down behind a bookcase and stayed there for several months. I stopped going to church and though I continued providing transport to the monthly Disabled Christian Fellowship meetings, would just drop off my people and then go back later to take them home again. But strangely, through all that time (what I irreverently referred to as my "sod God" stage) I knew without a shadow of a doubt that He was with me all along and waiting for the right time (HIS time!) to bring me back into the fold.



And that's just about how I feel now .. .. .. ..

Truth

Many won't confess it with their mouth, they say the don't have to. But if we want what they had in the Bible we need to do what the Bible says. Confessing with your mouth that He is your Lord brings salvation into manifestation-
    with your mouth confession is made unto salvation.( Romans 10:10b)

Some only believe it with their head, just give mental assent to the fact Jesus walked on this earth years ago, but James says  the devil believes too. Believing with our heart means to put all your trust in Him, the way you believe in a person completely.  They can have religion in their head and not be saved. I know I was one. In the church but lost. And didn't know it until I got saved.

The devil 'believes', but not in his heart. And he will never receive Jesus, nor repent.
And Jesus said except you repent, you shall all perish and that we must be born again.

Our spirit is  regenerated by the Holy Ghost, changed from a dead spirit to a live spirit. When we are born again old things pass away and all things become new. We have passed from death to life eternal, from that moment on. I remember that day. If we don't know we have been changed, we probably weren't. I didn't know what happened at the moment  but I knew I was totally different and absolutely loved the Lord. I hated the things I loved and loved the things I hated. Its a personal encounter with Jesus.