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Physical Healing in the Atonement, PHIA

Started by franky67, August 26, 2011, 04:48:25 pm

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franky67

I have had more than a few jousting matches on the subject of PHIA over on CF, and about couple years ago, I began to consider the fact that if healing isn't included in the work of the cross, then in the New Testament (New Covenant), there is no teaching from God as to how Christians receive healing, at least I can't find it.

Now some Christians today don't believe there is ANY healing at all , so this doesn't apply to them, but it applies to those who DO believe in praying for healing today, yet say healing is not included in the atonement.

Have any of you had thoughts along these lines?


pastorzzub

I just can't go back to not believe that BY HIS STRIPES WE WERE HEALED means exactly what it says.  6 words, all 1 syllable cannot be misunderstood.

I don't even pray for the sick any more, I just heal them.  God wants them well and I enforce God's will on earth.


JTM³

I really don't give a crap about theological wranglings.


Jesus healed, Jesus IS the express image of God, and Jesus is the SAME yesterday, today and forever.


Good enough for me. :mrcool:



[spoiler]

Job got HEALED, and YOU can be too!!

Pro tip: Read to the END of the book. Not just man's ideas. They're usually wrong. =P

Jesus = The revealed will of God for all people for all time.
[/spoiler]

Optimax

August 27, 2011, 03:00:57 pm #4 Last Edit: August 27, 2011, 06:01:20 pm by Optimax
It seems that many of those who say that healing is not included do so for these reasons.

They do not want to admit that it is, for then they would be responsible and accountable for their own health.

They are afraid that if they "tried"and are not  healed, it would make them look bad.

They know someone that as far as they knew was acting in faith and was not healed therefore God is wrong and the persons experience that was not healed is the truth.

franky67

Quote from: JTM³ on August 27, 2011, 02:34:39 pm
I really don't give a crap about theological wranglings.


Jesus healed, Jesus IS the express image of God, and Jesus is the SAME yesterday, today and forever.


Good enough for me. :mrcool:


I did not post here to wrangle, because I am pretty sure most of us here believe Jesus did it all, I posted to help me equip myself to answer the naysayers, and there many out there.

Pastorzzubs gave me a great one,

"if healing isn't in the atonement, then where is it?"

pastorzzub

Would rep you if I was near a computer, optimax

Renee

I'm gonna say this again cepten this time I know I won't be made fun of and yelled.


Here's my thoughts on healing. Jesus took the stripes upon His back for my healing. My body says I have heart probs, spina bifida, arthritis and severe asthma. But I know without a shadow of doubt that God said I am healed. His words are true. I AM HEALED. I'm just waiting for my body to catch up on that fact.
THE DEFINITION OF REVIVAL

1. Falling in love with Jesus all over again

2. Having the Joy of your salvation restored

Optimax

Quote from: Renee on August 27, 2011, 05:08:16 pm
I'm gonna say this again cepten this time I know I won't be made fun of and yelled.


Here's my thoughts on healing. Jesus took the stripes upon His back for my healing. My body says I have heart probs, spina bifida, arthritis and severe asthma. But I know without a shadow of doubt that God said I am healed. His words are true. I AM HEALED. I'm just waiting for my body to catch up on that fact.


I agree with you that the facts of bodily ailments that you are dealing with are not reality. God's Word is reality and your body will line up with the reality of God's Word because by His stripes you are healed!

JTM³

Quote from: pastorzzub on August 27, 2011, 04:08:31 pm
Would rep you if I was near a computer, optimax


lol Z a cell phone IS a computer, but I know what you mean. :tt2:


Quote from: franky67 on August 27, 2011, 04:07:40 pm
I did not post here to wrangle, because I am pretty sure most of us here believe Jesus did it all, I posted to help me equip myself to answer the naysayers, and there many out there.

Pastorzzubs gave me a great one,

"if healing isn't in the atonement, then where is it?"



I see. I also didn't mean to imply that you came to wrangle, tho I could have said that better I guess.

I simply don't care about the technicalities.

Its just evident to me.



[spoiler]

Job got HEALED, and YOU can be too!!

Pro tip: Read to the END of the book. Not just man's ideas. They're usually wrong. =P

Jesus = The revealed will of God for all people for all time.
[/spoiler]

franky67

Quote from: JTM³ on August 27, 2011, 06:18:32 pm
lol Z a cell phone IS a computer, but I know what you mean. :tt2:



I see. I also didn't mean to imply that you came to wrangle, tho I could have said that better I guess.

I simply don't care about the technicalities.

Its just evident to me.

I just want to have a reply ready when I'm asked , 2 Tim 4:2 says be ready to defend the faith.    ;D

JTM³

Quote from: franky67 on August 27, 2011, 07:31:02 pm




Did you  mean to post something there? :D


Looks like it got covered in the quote box? :tt2:



EDIT: Ok wow, that's weird... :shifty:



[spoiler]

Job got HEALED, and YOU can be too!!

Pro tip: Read to the END of the book. Not just man's ideas. They're usually wrong. =P

Jesus = The revealed will of God for all people for all time.
[/spoiler]

DiscipleHeLovesToo

if you're looking for scriptural evidence that healing is in the atonement, here's some great resources:

http://www.awmi.net/extra/audio/1036 (see first teaching "Healing is in Christ's Atonement")

http://www.moorelife.org/listseries.php?archive_index=ReceivingAndMinisteringHealing.txt&seriestitle=2001+-+Receiving+And+Ministering+Healing

GLY!!!
Joh 17:3  And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

DiscipleWhomJesusLoves

There's a simple scriptural formula that clearly proves healing is in the redemption of Christ.

Ga3:13 - Deu28:61 = PHIA

You simply can't dispute that.


If I may say so myself, I wrote a pretty comprehensive article on PHIA:
http://www.nuggets.esmartdesign.com/healingintheatonement.html

I was inspired by some idiots at CF.

Of cse, the million $ question then remains: If it's there for me, how do I receive it/experience it/walk in it/manifest it?

pastorzzub

That took me a few weeks to answer at church.  Not because the answer is complicated, it isn't.  But because religion has covered the doorway to healing - simple faith in redemption - with so much junk that it is difficult to find without clearing all the junk away.

WWW.treeoflifechurch.org.UK

Then click on STUDY CENTRE, then HEALING SCHOOL

franky67

Quote from: franky67 on August 26, 2011, 04:48:25 pm
I have had more than a few jousting matches on the subject of PHIA over on CF, and about couple years ago, I began to consider the fact that if healing isn't included in the work of the cross, then in the New Testament (New Covenant), there is no teaching from God as to how Christians receive healing, at least I can't find it.

Now some Christians today don't believe there is ANY healing at all , so this doesn't apply to them, but it applies to those who DO believe in praying for healing today, yet say healing is not included in the atonement.

Have any of you had thoughts along these lines?


Thanks to all of you, and good articles on PHIA, My main reason for posting on the subject is to highlight the fact that PHIA is the only reason we experience healing today in the body of Christ. There is NO THEOLOGY in the bible for healing by any other pathway, so how could anyone believe there was?

And that if we don't accept that fact of PHIA, then there is no faith available for healing, hence, people pray "if it be thy will"

I believe we have a powerful tool to teach PHIA in the above statements, but I don't hear this tool being used much.

The seed of all unbelief in healing today IMHO, is cessationism. the best tool satan has ever come up with.

JTM³

Hey Franky,

Wasn't trying to be rude or anything.


I guess what I meant to say is that if Jesus healed back then, and Jesus is the same yesterday today and forever, then that's good enough for me.

Anything more just seems to unnecessarily over complicate matters.




[spoiler]

Job got HEALED, and YOU can be too!!

Pro tip: Read to the END of the book. Not just man's ideas. They're usually wrong. =P

Jesus = The revealed will of God for all people for all time.
[/spoiler]

franky67

Quote from: JTM³ on September 01, 2011, 07:00:13 pm
Hey Franky,

Wasn't trying to be rude or anything.


I guess what I meant to say is that if Jesus healed back then, and Jesus is the same yesterday today and forever, then that's good enough for me.

Anything more just seems to unnecessarily over complicate matters.


No offense taken at all, and I am happy to accept God's gifts, myself, the driving force behind my post is to make it simple for others to receive, because they perish because of lack of knowledge.

So matters get complicated when God's people suffer sickness and pain, because of not discerning the Lord's Body rightly.

I just believe we can convince those who aren't sure about healing, if we can just get them to see the truth, faith comes by hearing.

JTM³

Quote from: franky67 on September 02, 2011, 04:30:33 pm
No offense taken at all, and I am happy to accept God's gifts, myself, the driving force behind my post is to make it simple for others to receive, because they perish because of lack of knowledge.

So matters get complicated when God's people suffer sickness and pain, because of not discerning the Lord's Body rightly.

I just believe we can convince those who aren't sure about healing, if we can just get them to see the truth, faith comes by hearing.


Well I guess I'm a little more pessimistic than you. :D

If you're talking the average church goer, possibly, it depends how brainwashed they are in a certain theology and how willing they are to open up to other possibilities.



Now if you're talking theologians, well, I would sooner roundhouse kick them. :tt2:

Not Christ like I know, but that is how I feel about most people with degrees from a cemetery. ;)



[spoiler]

Job got HEALED, and YOU can be too!!

Pro tip: Read to the END of the book. Not just man's ideas. They're usually wrong. =P

Jesus = The revealed will of God for all people for all time.
[/spoiler]

pastorzzub

I have two degrees from cemetries and I am about to get another one.

Bring the kicking on.