• Welcome, Guest. Please login.

In the Hands of an angry God???

Started by Rachel Faith, June 17, 2011, 10:29:02 pm

Previous topic - Next topic

Rachel Faith

This is from another thread, but it raises an interesting question for me. Here is the quote: "In Scripture, God forbids certain things and tells us to do certain things. He is angry with sinners for their devil deeds, and there is rejoicing in Heaven when even one of those sinners turns to Him."

So my question is do you all believe that God is still angry with sinners or do you believe that His anger and wrath was satisfied with the crucifixion of Jesus?

And no, I'm not going to argue with anyone about this. I just would be interested to know where y'all stand on this.

Rachel
Above all, keep fervent in your love for one another, because love covers a multitude of sins. 1 Peter 4:8

pastorzzub

Not angry.  Jesus paid the price for our sins and the sins of the world.  He Paul the full price. 

Our message to people should never be "God is angry at you, and if you just sort your life out He will be happy".  We have the GOOD NEWS of reconciliation.  God has already dealt with everything. And loves you and would want you to s8ply believe He did it all.

We must teach the love of God.  Sinners in the hands of an angry god is essentially modern day Pharisees.  One step away from thank you Lord I am not like this scum bag.

jiminpa

God didn't change, but even His wrath is a result of His love, since He is love.  I know that I can't understand that, but it is true none-the-less. 

This past week I looked at the fear of the Lord a little, and it frightened me.  God is to be more than just respected; He is to be feared, even by Christians, yet we can come boldly before Him in Jesus.  That was also true in the Old Testament, but they looked to a Messiah that hadn't come yet, (from our perspective), for access.  It's kind of like Esther going before the king uninvited, but Jesus always extends mercy and lets us live. 
I used to worry and stress and strive to "do my part," never believing that I had done enough of "my part."  Now I see my part as casting it off on Him, doing what I believe He is giving me, and letting it just be His problem.  I don't have to fix everything, but I get to work along side of God.

pastorzzub

The fear of the Lord is not being frightened of Him.  It's being in love with Him so much you don't ever want to hurt Him.

I don't commit adultery for "fear" of my wife.  Not that I am scared of her knocking my brains out with a frying pan, but that I don't want to hurt someone who has given up so much for me and has been the one person who has been consistently there for me and on my side.

That is the fear of the Lord. 

Being afraid of God is to fail to know who He is properly.  Adam ran from God scared that God would kill him but God was looking to clothe him.

JohnDB

Sure...God gets angry and frustrated with us...

But the first and most important thing about God is that GOD IS ALWAYS GOOD.

Doesn't seem like the two go together...one of those paradox thingies.

The thing we have to fear most is God's goodness. God is sooo good that He is Holy, holy, holy.

Holy is not only without blemish and pure and for divine purposes but it also has a nature of forcing out all error.

So...

When we say that God is Holy, Holy, Holy what we are saying is that God is the Holiest of the Holiest of the Holy.

IOW

If you took something that was good and holy...really good without anything wrong with it and was able to distill and refine it some more to an even more pure and perfect something...and then refine that something and distill it out to even more pure and perfect than that...you now how holy holy holy.

But God is infinite where you are likely imagining it getting smaller and smaller.

Even still this level of holiness is going to react violently with our sin natured selves. And that is where Jesus's sacrifice protects us from the fury of all of that holiness.

Sure we are sinners and do dumb things and I am sure there are days where God is sure we will never do right. (I know I feel that way some days)

But loving us and keeping us safe go hand in hand. We have no need to fear.  God don't get angry at us like that.
I wanna die like grandpa, peacefully and in his sleep. Not like the passengers in his car...they were all screaming and panicking.

Rachel Faith

Interesting to see the responses so far. Thanks guys!
Above all, keep fervent in your love for one another, because love covers a multitude of sins. 1 Peter 4:8

pastorzzub

I stopped reading at sure God gets angry with us.

That is not true.

Rachel Faith

Well that is why I asked the question...because a lot of Christians believe that God is mad at them. So I naturally wonder why....why would God be mad at us for doing things or not doing things that He KNEW about and already sent His Son Jesus to die for? That would seem to imply that JEsus' sacrifice wasn't enough to curb God's anger and wrath. It's very confusing and leads a lot of people into bondage again. But the Word says that we are free....So if God is still mad at us even after the sacrifice on the cross then what was the point? And if that's the case, then why should anyone be saved if He's still mad at us even after we're saved?


Above all, keep fervent in your love for one another, because love covers a multitude of sins. 1 Peter 4:8

lovesblessing

God is not angry with us.....all His wrath was poured out on Jesus on the cross.....
[/size][/color]
[/size][/color]In Hebrews 10:14-23 the Risen Lord Jesus told us this truth thru His word.......


[/size]
Hebrews 10:14-23
New International Version (NIV)[size=0.65em]14[/size] For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.
[size=0.65em]15[/size] The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:
[size=0.65em]16[/size] "This is the covenant I will make with them
   after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
   and I will write them on their minds."
[size=0.65em][[/color]a][/size]
[size=0.65em]17[/size] Then he adds:
   "Their sins and lawless acts
   I will remember no more."
[size=0.65em][[/color]b][/size]
[size=0.65em]18[/size] And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary.A Call to Persevere in Faith [size=0.65em]19[/size] Therefore, brothers and sisters, since we have confidence to enter the Most Holy Place by the blood of Jesus, [size=0.65em]20[/size] by a new and living way opened for us through the curtain, that is, his body, [size=0.65em]21[/size] and since we have a great priest over the house of God, [size=0.65em]22[/size] let us draw near to God with a sincere heart and with the full assurance that faith brings, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water. [size=0.65em]23[/size] Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful.
Footnotes:


And here is the scripture that He uses to prove what He just said:

Jeremiah 31:33-34
New International Version (NIV)[size=0.65em]33[/size] "This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
   after that time," declares the LORD.
"I will put my law in their minds
   and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
   and they will be my people.
[size=0.65em]34[/size] No longer will they teach their neighbor,
   or say to one another, 'Know the LORD,'
because they will all know me,
   from the least of them to the greatest,"
            declares the LORD.
"For I will forgive their wickedness
   and will remember their sins no more."
[/color]If God has forgiven us and will remember our sins no more, what on earth could He possibly be angry with us for?[/font][/size]
[/color][/font]
[/size][/color]This is the New Covenant.....this is the eternal truth of the gift of grace God gave us in Jesus at the cross.......He knew that no man would ever be able to perfectly keep the Law........so He came to earth as His Son Jesus, to keep the Law for us and be our redemption......if man was able to keep the Law why would we need a Saviour at all?  ;)
[/size][/color]
[/size][/color]
[/size][/color]As far as the fear of the Lord goes.....we should always let the Bible tell us what the Bible means.....not our experiences.....to see how Jesus used the fear of the Lord....look at where the devil tempted Jesus when He was in desert.......the devil told Jesus to worship him as a temptation.......and Jesus said to him,  "Worship the Lord you God and serve Him only"......He was quoting from Duet. 6:13......where it READS "Fear the Lord your God, and serve Him only...."  So Jesus equated the word fear there with WORSHIP......and I like how Jesus read the Bible.....especially since He wrote it......He would know what He meant.....
[/size][/color]

Faith is having a good opinion of God!


Renee

This is coming from someone that still views God as Holy and Righteous and still believes that God does judge. God is not mad or angry at you.
THE DEFINITION OF REVIVAL

1. Falling in love with Jesus all over again

2. Having the Joy of your salvation restored

jiminpa

I don't believe that God is angry in a way that is to be appeased by us behaving ourselves better.  God's anger was appeased at the cross once for any who accept it, and I believe that that was eternal in both directions, which is why King David had the relationship with God that he did. 

Fearing God is different, and even though I now see it as genuine fear, there is provision for it, in Jesus. 
I used to worry and stress and strive to "do my part," never believing that I had done enough of "my part."  Now I see my part as casting it off on Him, doing what I believe He is giving me, and letting it just be His problem.  I don't have to fix everything, but I get to work along side of God.

JohnDB

PastorZ,
If you had read further what I wrote you would see what I meant.

Jesus himself had several instances where he was clearly "put out" with people because of their insistence on choosing things that weren't good for themselves. Especially when he just got through talking people out of one bad choice & they now decide on a worse one. 

 
I wanna die like grandpa, peacefully and in his sleep. Not like the passengers in his car...they were all screaming and panicking.

Rachel Faith

"put out" isn't the same thing as "angry" though....  from thefreedictionary.com here is the definition of "put out" that I think you are confusing with angry:

a. To inconvenience: Did our early arrival put you out?b. To offend or irritate: I was put out by his attention to the television set.



Above all, keep fervent in your love for one another, because love covers a multitude of sins. 1 Peter 4:8

Yitzchak

     God still gets angry. This is an issue where people draw wrong conclusions. They think they have it figured out. But the scripture teaches us that God still gets angry.

   In fact , There is a story from the book of Acts where it would seem that God was a little bit more than just "put out " or hurt. I think this Bible story answers very clearly whether or not God would still judge someone in the New Testament church since it took place after Jesus was crucified and rose and after the day of Pentecost. It would seem that God is doing something in this Bible story that people's theology insists could never happen and yet it did.

QuoteAct 5:1  But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,
Act 5:2  And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.
Act 5:3  But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
Act 5:4  Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
Act 5:5  And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
Act 5:6  And the young men arose, wound him up, and carried him out, and buried him.
Act 5:7  And it was about the space of three hours after, when his wife, not knowing what was done, came in.
Act 5:8  And Peter answered unto her, Tell me whether ye sold the land for so much? And she said, Yea, for so much.
Act 5:9  Then Peter said unto her, How is it that ye have agreed together to tempt the Spirit of the Lord? behold, the feet of them which have buried thy husband are at the door, and shall carry thee out.
Act 5:10  Then fell she down straightway at his feet, and yielded up the ghost: and the young men came in, and found her dead, and, carrying her forth, buried her by her husband.
Act 5:11  And great fear came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things.


   Also , the great fear that came upon the people was not just a respect that they did not want to do anything that would hurt God. It was a fear that God would kill them too if they stepped out of line.
To know him and to make him known

Yitzchak

     Also Jesus got angry. There is the well known story of Jesus driving the money changers out of the temple.

QuoteMar 11:15  And they come to Jerusalem: and Jesus went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves;
Mar 11:16  And would not suffer that any man should carry any vessel through the temple.
Mar 11:17  And he taught, saying unto them, Is it not written, My house shall be called of all nations the house of prayer? but ye have made it a den of thieves.


   In this verse , it says straight out that Jesus was angry. Angry at their heard hearts  and unbelief.

QuoteMar 3:5  And when he had looked round about on them with anger, being grieved for the hardness of their hearts, he saith unto the man, Stretch forth thine hand. And he stretched it out: and his hand was restored whole as the other.



To know him and to make him known

Rachel Faith

Thanks for those scriptures. Obviously we are supposed to live lives in fear of God and His punishment. Got it. Thanks for clearing that up.
Above all, keep fervent in your love for one another, because love covers a multitude of sins. 1 Peter 4:8

jiminpa

Quote from: Rachel Faith on June 19, 2011, 01:06:20 pm
Thanks for those scriptures. Obviously we are supposed to live lives in fear of God and His punishment. Got it. Thanks for clearing that up.
...Not at all what I meant, and I think you know that.  Our heavenly Father loves us, yet we can't just ignore that the Bible values the fear of the Lord.  We here are not in agreement as to what the fear of the Lord is, and I have recently been impressed that there is trembling involved, and so believe that there is real fear there.  There is also love, mercy and grace. 
I used to worry and stress and strive to "do my part," never believing that I had done enough of "my part."  Now I see my part as casting it off on Him, doing what I believe He is giving me, and letting it just be His problem.  I don't have to fix everything, but I get to work along side of God.

Supplanter

And yet perfect love casts out all fear.......how do we reconcile the two?

Rachel Faith

That's my problem Supplanter, I can't reconcile the two.
Above all, keep fervent in your love for one another, because love covers a multitude of sins. 1 Peter 4:8

Sarah

Quote from: Supplanter on June 20, 2011, 08:39:44 am
And yet perfect love casts out all fear.......how do we reconcile the two?


IMO...Our price has been paid for.  When the Father looks at us he sees us through the blood of Jesus.  He sees us perfect and without sin.  He did leave us with two commandments.  Love God and Love your neighbor.  Our price has been pain in full.
Embraced by the loving arms of the Father....