Started by Pete, April 17, 2011, 09:40:22 pm
Quote from: Pete on April 17, 2011, 09:40:22 pmI wonder... is this the message the church sends to people? When a church member is caught in sin of some kind, the church often "disciplines" that member, by removing some privileges, calling them out, removing them from their position in the church, etc. This is usually done to make an example of the person, to act as a deterrent to others, and for "discipline". But I wonder... do you think that this type of "discipline" is truly an effective deterrent, or do you think it only encourages people to get good at hiding their sins and flaws and putting up a facade?
Quote from: pastorzzub on April 18, 2011, 11:17:12 amGetting personal now, I was fornicating with my wife a good six months before we got married. She was my first - after all the talks about waiting for the right person, no one really mentioned wait for the right time!
Quote from: pastorzzub on April 18, 2011, 11:17:12 amNow for six months I was respected by my community, church and everyone else, who often came to me for wisdom and guidance. Following this, I got right with God. I told 10 people who I knew best, quit doing it, and just waited for the stones to fly, and they did. Mrs Zzub had it worse, girls are more catty than guys, and a lot of guys are wishing they were having sex and aren't too critical.But I tell you what, I enjoyed being true to God and people knowing I had done something wrong than the other way around, and I mean that totally.
Quote from: pastorzzub on April 18, 2011, 11:17:12 amThe thing about "secret" sin is Pete is that it is a secret, you can only act on what you know. You are not being hypocritical, you are just being ignorant. It's not a conspiracy, it's d just you didn't know.
Quote from: pastorzzub on April 18, 2011, 11:17:12 amWhen I didn't know this woman had moved her boyfriend in, that was her sin and her problem. When I found out about the fact one of my elders was living with a man who was not her husband, I had to act or I would be complicit.
Quote from: pastorzzub on April 18, 2011, 11:17:12 amI agree that knowing tfacts about someone's life should not make us think less of them - they are still a blood boughtsh child of God. But I don't agree that removing someone from a position of responsibility and influence is somehow off-putting. Not necessarily. Someone in our church did something they should not have a few months ago, and then did it a second time. They are in a position of great influence in the church (not me, just to add, lol!). They needed some time off. I asked the Lord for wisdom, and I took over their position for about 2 months and gave them space to deal with it. Asking them to deal with their ministry AND deal with understanding their righteousness and how to walk in it at the same time is an immense pressure. That is wrong. The church doesn't know why I have take on that role, and I am not telling them. I am hopefully passing the group in the next few weeks back to them.
Quote from: pastorzzub on April 18, 2011, 11:17:12 amI think the problem we often have is we separate judging from ruling. Christians can judge, but only what they are in charge of. If someone in another church did that, I would simply show love because it is none of my business.
Quote from: DiscipleHeLovesToo on April 18, 2011, 12:48:34 pmhere's my opinion (free and possibly worth that price ) the real problem is that most churches apply '5 sense perceivable' qualifications to determine who should be selected for a position of leadership, rather than patiently seeking the leading of the Holy Spirit. the flip side of this coin is that nobody (whom the Holy Spirit put in a position of leadership) should be removed from a position of authority without clear leading of the Holy Spirit to do so - because the Holy Spirit is the one who should be in charge. after all, nothing spiritual can be accurately judged with the senses. it's not the example of outward holiness that affects the hearts of people, it's the example of the selfless love of God that causes change. all right now, put those rocks down!
Quote from: Pete on April 18, 2011, 01:14:55 pmAre you saying that just because we perceive something (i.e., we see evidence of sin in someone's life), this does not mean we should necessarily jump to removing them from their position?
Quote from: heatherfb on April 18, 2011, 04:52:48 pmThis is a very interesting :-)My previous church fellowship had major problems with a lack of discipline. The pastor when we first joined around ten years ago we later discovered had been on aslipoery slope for a number of years andbehaviours that were clearly sinful were not challenged by fellow pastors who were aware of what was going on. Eventually it was discovered that he was involved in a homosexual lifestyle in secret, his marriage and ministry were destroyed and he is still active in that lifestyle. It seems like by not dealing with earlier problems the other pastors almost encouraged this man to secretly live out a sinful life and still minister. Perhaps if there had been discipline earlier and in a loving manner then this man's life and ministry could have been different.
Quote from: heatherfb on April 18, 2011, 04:52:48 pmMore recently the subsequent pastor's desire for there to be much more transparency and biblical discipline lead to a major congregational uprising, a bitter split and extreme stress that contributed to his premature death. I have to be honest and say I struggle with the whole concept of exactly how the issue of discipline should be handled. I think there is at times a real need for some kind of public discipline but the problem can be the back lash of the christian gossips who instead of showing love and support, tear down and share "prayer concerns". I think that we all need to be cautious in these situations as I know myself that there are areas of my life that I would not want under public scrutiny. Guess it's all about balance between removing the planks from our own eyes and expelling the immoral brother!
Quotewhen the church accepts sin instead of turning from it then she throws the cross, nails and crown of thorns right back in the face of Christ.
Quote from: heatherfb on April 19, 2011, 03:18:34 amWhat things do you all think people should be challenged on? A lot of the stuff that has been mentioned on here relates to stuff of a sexual nature but what about other areas like gossip or criticism? Is the churchfocussing too much on one area? How can we get a balance without picking on every little thing?
Quote from: DiscipleHeLovesToo on April 19, 2011, 10:37:07 am...and stop that sinning or we'll have to ask you to leave...
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