A Question About God's Favor Upon Jesus

Started by Neph, March 03, 2009, 12:43:08 am

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Neph

Luke 2:52, And Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men.

Ok, I can see Jesus growing in favor with men, but with God also? Does this mean that Jesus had less favor with God as a baby and God gave him more and more favor as He grew up?
God's NOT mad at you!! . . . . .NO matter what!

Alpine

That's a tough one. Almost seems like a saying from those days. A way of saying how one is respected by the public and the religious community.
As long as the Steelers themes smileys exist so shall my protest last!

bill16652

I believe when it is saying that we have to remember that Jesus laid aside His divinity to come to earth as a man so therefore He was tempted and could have made the wrong choices so as He grew and stayed sinless He grew in Gods favor as the man part of Him

goofy

not less favor, i don't think, but as He grew and learned and did what God wanted, Jesus received additional favor in His own right, above and beyond what He had as being God's Son.

it's the same way with our kids.
they have a measure of our regard automatically just because they are ours. but when they do good things on their own our regard for them increases, and is added on top of what we normally feel for them.

Alpine

Quote from: bill16652 on March 03, 2009, 09:40:42 am
I believe when it is saying that we have to remember that Jesus laid aside His divinity to come to earth as a man so therefore He was tempted and could have made the wrong choices so as He grew and stayed sinless He grew in Gods favor as the man part of Him



Well, this brings other issues to mind. Did Jesus lay aside His divinity when He came to earth? I am inclined to say no.
As long as the Steelers themes smileys exist so shall my protest last!

bill16652

Quote from: Alpine on March 03, 2009, 10:47:05 am

Well, this brings other issues to mind. Did Jesus lay aside His divinity when He came to earth? I am inclined to say no.
If He didnt then He could not sin or be tempted as a man so He could not relate to our struggles.  Satan would have every right to cry foul.

Neph

Thanks for your replies, you people are making some great points and helping me understand this better.
God's NOT mad at you!! . . . . .NO matter what!

Neph

Quote from: Alpine on March 03, 2009, 08:25:24 am
That's a tough one. Almost seems like a saying from those days. A way of saying how one is respected by the public and the religious community.

Yeah, I was reading that last night and it just kinda poped out at me and I was thinking, what's that all about?
God's NOT mad at you!! . . . . .NO matter what!

Neph

Quote from: bill16652 on March 03, 2009, 11:02:52 am
If He didnt then He could not sin or be tempted as a man so He could not relate to our struggles.  Satan would have every right to cry foul.

But Jesus was both 100% man and 100% God at the same time. That is what the Church has taught from the beginning. How could He lay down his divinity when that was who He was?
God's NOT mad at you!! . . . . .NO matter what!

bill16652

He voluntarily laid it aside so He could redeem mankind and yes He was devine but also man, but it was only as a man that He could even be tempted.  If He was devine then how could satan think that death would hold Him?  The only reason death had no claim to Him was because He was sinless.

Wordsmith

March 03, 2009, 01:53:43 pm #10 Last Edit: March 03, 2009, 02:53:15 pm by Wordsmith
Quote from: Neph on March 03, 2009, 12:43:08 am
Luke 2:52, And Jesus grew in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men.

Ok, I can see Jesus growing in favor with men, but with God also? Does this mean that Jesus had less favor with God as a baby and God gave him more and more favor as He grew up?


I believe that Jesus always had favor with God by the fact of being the first born of God.  But he also had to have the ability in the flesh to not do the will of God, or He couldn't be tempted. It would be a moot point and a waste of time for Satan to even try.  Jesus said,  "I only do what I see my Father doing."  He was doing what He saw
His Father doing even at the young age of 12 teaching in the temple. Scripture speaks about the people being amazed at His teaching and wisdom even at that early age.
Be as loving as the Truth allows, even if it's
mis-interpreted,
because everyone  you meet is fighting
some kind of battle.

Neph

Quote from: bill16652 on March 03, 2009, 01:30:35 pm
He voluntarily laid it aside so He could redeem mankind and yes He was devine but also man, but it was only as a man that He could even be tempted.  If He was devine then how could satan think that death would hold Him?  The only reason death had no claim to Him was because He was sinless.

If you say you believe He was both divine and man, what then are you saying He laid aside?
God's NOT mad at you!! . . . . .NO matter what!

bill16652

He is divine and was man.  When God sent Him He voluntarily laid aside His divinity to operate as we do.  His power was by the Holy Spirit and Goast not by His divinity.  His favor with God was by His obedience to His word and He could have chosen not to and the only way to do that was by beiing a man.

Neph

Quote from: Wordsmith on March 03, 2009, 01:53:43 pm


I believe that Jesus always had favor with God by the fact of being the first born of God.  But he also had to have the ability in the flesh to not do the will of God, or He couldn't be tempted. It would be a moot point and a waste of time for Satan to even try.  Jesus said,  "I only do what I see my Father doing."  He was doing what He saw
His Father doing even at the young age of 12 teaching in the temple. Scripture speaks about the people being amazed at His teaching and wisdom even at that early age.

So as Jesus stayed totally within the will of God, and walked without sin, and remained perfect like the Father is perfect, God increasingly became pleased in him?
God's NOT mad at you!! . . . . .NO matter what!

Neph

Quote from: bill16652 on March 03, 2009, 05:57:53 pm
He is divine and was man.  When God sent Him He voluntarily laid aside His divinity to operate as we do.  His power was by the Holy Spirit and Goast not by His divinity.  His favor with God was by His obedience to His word and He could have chosen not to and the only way to do that was by beiing a man.

I have to disagree with this. When you say He laid aside his divinity you are then saying on this earth Jesus wasn't divine because He laid it aside. You keep saying He was both divine and man yet then say He wasn't divine on this earth. That don't make sense, He was either divine or He wasn't.

God's NOT mad at you!! . . . . .NO matter what!

bill16652

Lets phrase it this way that He was divine but was capable of sin as a man.  I have to ask you that if you believe He was in His divine nature then how could He sin?  How could He relate with our struggles or pay the price for us?

Neph

Quote from: bill16652 on March 03, 2009, 06:53:32 pm
Lets phrase it this way that He was divine but was capable of sin as a man.  I have to ask you that if you believe He was in His divine nature then how could He sin?  How could He relate with our struggles or pay the price for us?

Well, do you think He abstained from sinning because of will power? If he wasn't both divine and man he would have failed like all the rest of us do. I don't believe it was his will power, I believe it was by his divine nature. I also believe we share in this divine nature. And I believe the only way for us to ever abstain from sinning is by living and walking in this divine nature, just like He did.

1 Corinthians 6:17, But he who unites himself with the Lord is one with him in spirit.

2 Corinthians 5:21, God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

Ephesians 4:24, and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.

1 John 4:17, In this way, love is made complete among us so that we will have confidence on the day of judgement, because in this world we are like him.

In our born again spirit we are just like him.


Perhaps we just have a different definition of divine?
God's NOT mad at you!! . . . . .NO matter what!

bill16652

Perhaps but we do know that the bible tells us He was capable of sin, that He felt our infirmities, that He was rtempted.  How do you tempt someone who is not capable of sin?  If divine why did the Holy Spirit come down on Him ?  You see I know that He is God but He was also man.  One of the reasons His linage was so important was prophecy and to show He was man.  Saean is not stupid by any means and would not have wasted his time tempting Jesus if He could not sin

Neph

March 03, 2009, 09:36:53 pm #18 Last Edit: March 04, 2009, 01:18:43 am by Neph
Quote from: bill16652 on March 03, 2009, 09:24:38 pm
Perhaps but we do know that the bible tells us He was capable of sin, that He felt our infirmities, that He was rtempted.  How do you tempt someone who is not capable of sin?  If divine why did the Holy Spirit come down on Him ?  You see I know that He is God but He was also man.  One of the reasons His linage was so important was prophecy and to show He was man.  Saean is not stupid by any means and would not have wasted his time tempting Jesus if He could not sin

He was tempted in every way that we are but Jesus didn't have a sin nature, he had a divine nature. It's our sin nature that causes all of us to sin after being tempted. Jesus didn't have the sin nature because in order to recieve the sin nature you have to come from Adam, for it is thru the blood of Adam that the sin nature comes. God was Jesus' Father, not a man. Emmanuel, God with us.



Romans 5:12-15, Therefore, just as sin entered the world througjh one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned, for before the  law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law. Nevertheless, death reigned from the time of Adam to the time of Moses, even those who did not sin by breaking a command, as did Adam, who was a pattern of the one to come. But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God's grace and the gift that came by the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many!
God's NOT mad at you!! . . . . .NO matter what!

Wordsmith

March 03, 2009, 10:01:26 pm #19 Last Edit: March 03, 2009, 11:04:27 pm by Wordsmith
Quote from: Neph on March 03, 2009, 05:58:20 pm

So as Jesus stayed totally within the will of God, and walked without sin, and remained perfect like the Father is perfect, God increasingly became pleased in him?


I don't think the Father at anytime was not pleased with His Son.  If there was the slightest chance that He would fail, I don't think He would have sent His Son. I do believe that God knew the outcome from beginning to end. When Jesus was being baptized by John, a voice was heard, "this is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased, hear ye Him"..this was said way before Jesus could have possibly failed. So Gods love for His Son was not based on if He might fail or not. He loved Him and was pleased with Him,  because he was His Son.  If Jesus wasn't already totally convienced that His Father was already pleased,  then everything He did would have been based on works,  to earn His Fathers love and acceptance.
Be as loving as the Truth allows, even if it's
mis-interpreted,
because everyone  you meet is fighting
some kind of battle.