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February 24, 2020, 07:01:24 pm

Spiritual Warfare vs. Freewill

Started by 8 iron, June 08, 2008, 01:00:17 pm

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8 iron


sharonl

Yes we can bind them, but should not cast them out if they are invited in and they do not want them cast out.

I had this with a friend who had 3 familiar spirits and she said she would never get rid of them because they were her friends.

I had to spend the night many times because of her illness - you could feel the demons there - I would just bind them away from me and lay down and go to sleep. Strange thing is - I had no fear even though they were manifesting to my friend at night.

You can cast them out - but if they are invited in - they will come back and bring 7 more and they will be in worse shape than before.
Diamonds From Heaven - help for the hurting heart
http://gentle.org/sites/diamonds/
Beautiful gifts - the men love them http://chopsknives.com

Balance

Quote from: Truth on May 08, 2009, 12:46:47 am
  Some will never be saved because no one prayed against the demonic spirits that influence and blind them. Spiritual warfare and binding the spirits  frees the person from them so they can have a chance to make their own choice.


Help me here - because I can't find one example of Jesus commanding us to pray against spirits - I can't find one example from the epistles of anyone binding a demon (rebuking/casting out - yes), I can't find one example of a person accepting salvation after someone bound a spirit over them, nor instruction for us to do so.

That is the crux of the problem I have with some spiritual warfare teaching - I can't find anyone in scripture doing it. 

Romans 8:
37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. 38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.


If anything, Jesus has disarmed them:

[/]
Col 2:15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.               
Ego is the opiate that dulls the pain of being obviously stupid.

The Lord is my banner

Good point, Balance.


I also find the concept of demons having "legal grounds" a bit odd.  I used to believe all that stuff, but when I go to scripture it doesn't add up somehow.

That would be like a convicted felon being given the keys to the cells of the other prisoners so he could go in to vandalise and steal their stuff or attack them, wouldn't it?

I truly don't believe God gave evil spirits any legal rights at all.  They're thieves, liars, murderers, vandals and house-breakers, and the Judge of all the earth, who does indeed do right, surely does not sanction that kind of activity.


sharonl

You are probably right - this happened to me when I first became Spirit Filled and was as dumb as a rock about such things - I never encountered anything like this before nor did I ever know it existed.

But I think it made me feel better when I laid down knowing she had 3 familiar spirits in her and had told me about her sister who is dead manifesting before her. Said she was so full of hate. I had to get educated real quick.
Diamonds From Heaven - help for the hurting heart
http://gentle.org/sites/diamonds/
Beautiful gifts - the men love them http://chopsknives.com

8 iron

Balance,


Jesus also says we are to cast out demons in His name...... :shrug:




Balance

Quote from: 8 iron on May 25, 2009, 07:34:03 pm
Balance,
Jesus also says we are to cast out demons in His name...... :shrug:


Yes sir!  There is plenty of scriptural support in instructions and examples of doing so.

Unlike no instruction and no support to bind anything.

I've heard well intentioned people say things like "well you have to bind them before you can cast them out". 

Unfortunately that is not supported in scripture either.
Ego is the opiate that dulls the pain of being obviously stupid.

The Lord is my banner

Yup, just tell them to leave.

No hoopla.

Only a handful of times experience myself, nothing major, but I'm sure that same biblical principle applies in all instances.  I guess some might be a little more tenacious, but the name of Jesus and all the power He exerts through me, (astonishing isn't it?!) has got to be enough, otherwise nothing makes sense does it?

An example -

A little girl with a phobia of daddy-long-legs that was becoming a daily terror and limiting her freedom.  I told the spirit of fear to get out in Jesus' name, leave her alone, never return.
She was compliant with me praying but felt awkward and hid her face.  She had a little faith of her own, but no real understanding of spiritual warfare etc., and simply trusted me to pray effectively.  Humbling experience.

She still has a strong dislike of the creatures, but the extreme revulsion has gone.  She doesn't climb walls or knock people down as she flees the room any more, and she can, if necessary, squash one in a bundle of tissues and dispose of it.
Brave girl, my daughter!  She still has to overcome her human fear of creepy-crawlies at times, but that edge of terror, the supernatural, crippling horror, is gone.

Isn't God amazing?  The power of Jesus is great indeed, what else would we need?


Supplanter

Quote from: Balance on May 25, 2009, 09:56:33 pm
Yes sir!  There is plenty of scriptural support in instructions and examples of doing so.

Unlike no instruction and no support to bind anything.

I've heard well intentioned people say things like "well you have to bind them before you can cast them out". 

Unfortunately that is not supported in scripture either.



I use to hear the phrase above a lot and finally at a Bible study, someone said that it wasn't scriptural and when you say you are binding a spirit, then what are you binding them to. I realize to bid something could just mean to like bind it's own parts together, but my friend suggested that you could be commanding that spirit to be bound to that person more times than not. Now, I think that God is still faithful even when we are misinformed about some things, but it just isn't a good idea to bind a spirit.

Rebuke it, Cast it out, Command it to flee (all are scriptural but maybe you guys should check me on the last one)

I will share personally that my most horrifying experience with a demon was when one began to physically manifest before my eyes. My room filled with a cloud of darkness and then that cloud began to gather at the foot of my bed into something more solid. I literally was so afraid that I thought I might die if it fully manifested before me. In fact, in that moment, I thought death might be better than what awaited should that demon manifest. I wanted to scream but my throat was closed up. I couldn't get a peep out or move as I watched in horror what was happening. I began praying silently, "Oh Jesus, please help me. Please just loose my tongue enough to say your name." My tongue was loosed and I barely squeaked out Jesus and immediately the cloud of darkness was gone and the atmosphere was restored.

Balance

I'm always cautious about sharing some things, because people sometimes misconstrue things.  Let me share a little on my dealing with demons.

I was ministering in a church in city in Mexico, about 30 miles South of the Tropic line.  We were building a church and had the floor poured and the walls up - all that was left was a roof.  We were preaching the first sermon in the new church and the pastor had just given an altar call for anyone who wanted to be prayed for.  An older lady came to me and asked for prayer for migraine head aches, as she spoke to the interpretor, I suddenly saw this demon sitting on her shoulder.  He had her head locked tight in his arms.

The thing was about two feet tall, had a human style body, but incredibly black and covered in fur.  It's head was a cube, I'd say a foot by a foot square - It's face looked similar to the carvings on Myan temples.

I spoke to it and said - "You have to let go of her" - It's response was - "I don't have to listen to you" - it was then I rebuked it and commanded it to leave her in Jesus' Name.  I told it to leave the church also.  It looked at me, whimpered and jumped off her shoulder and ran out of the building.

I remember asking God why He would allow me to see such things, and did not hear any reply, just felt His loving arms around me.

That night I returned to my hotel room and was just about to fall asleep, when I felt like someone was watching me.  (Not a feeling you want with another missionary in the room).  I opened my eyes and this demon was standing by my bed, it's elbows were on the bed and its head was in its hands smiling.  When it opened its mouth, I clearly saw three rows of teeth bottom and top - all shaped like arrow heads, with serrations, like steak knives.  It said to me - "I lost the woman - now you are mine"

I laughed - it was hard not too.  I said "you are as stupid as you are ugly, I am a child of the Living God, a vessel of His presence, one Spirit with Him, you have as much chance of having me, as your master did in trying to conquer Jesus Christ."

When I said that, the smiles left its face, it stood up straight and trembled and then dissolved in front of me.                   


Ego is the opiate that dulls the pain of being obviously stupid.

The Lord is my banner

Great testimonies of the power of God working through His children, thank you both for sharing.  Praise and glory to Him!


sharonl

OMG - isn't it amazing how we don't have any fear when they manifest - the times I was around them I had no fear at all - If you would have told me 20 years ago that this happens I would have thought you were crazy.

But i had to be educated really quick on this.

thanks Balance - that really puts things in prespective.
Diamonds From Heaven - help for the hurting heart
http://gentle.org/sites/diamonds/
Beautiful gifts - the men love them http://chopsknives.com

Truth

Quote from: Balance on May 25, 2009, 12:05:12 pm

Romans 8:
37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. 38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Col 2:15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.               

Balance
These are good verses are for the believer.

But what about those who are so bound they can't even get saved? Are we going to let the devil have a hey day in the lives of our freinds and family and  let him do anything to us and them through them?  just sit back and let him run over us even if they are dangerous?

Matthew 28:18
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

Matthew 16:19
And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Matthew 18:18
Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

I've seen people who could not even say if they wanted to be free because the devil spoke through them, until they got some deliverance and then they could barely vocalize  to let us know they wanted deliverance.


Truth

Quote from: Balance on May 28, 2009, 02:35:52 pm
I'm always cautious about sharing some things, because people sometimes misconstrue things.  Let me share a little on my dealing with demons.

I was ministering in a church in city in Mexico, about 30 miles South of the Tropic line.  We were building a church and had the floor poured and the walls up - all that was left was a roof.  We were preaching the first sermon in the new church and the pastor had just given an altar call for anyone who wanted to be prayed for.  An older lady came to me and asked for prayer for migraine head aches, as she spoke to the interpretor, I suddenly saw this demon sitting on her shoulder.  He had her head locked tight in his arms.

The thing was about two feet tall, had a human style body, but incredibly black and covered in fur.  It's head was a cube, I'd say a foot by a foot square - It's face looked similar to the carvings on Myan temples.

I spoke to it and said - "You have to let go of her" - It's response was - "I don't have to listen to you" - it was then I rebuked it and commanded it to leave her in Jesus' Name.  I told it to leave the church also.  It looked at me, whimpered and jumped off her shoulder and ran out of the building.

I remember asking God why He would allow me to see such things, and did not hear any reply, just felt His loving arms around me.


That happens often that we can see in the spirit like that.  I've seen those ugly things.

That woman thought she was coming for healing of a headache. I believe the reason to be able to see him was to know he  was the problem and deal with him instead of just praying for  some  physical situation. To  just pray for healing when its a devil wouldn't take care of it. We have to get rid of him then healing will come.