Started by Leah, November 17, 2008, 12:18:46 am
Quote from: Sarah on November 17, 2008, 12:22:46 amAnother thing that relates is that God has forgiven Satan too.
Quote from: The Lord is my banner on November 17, 2008, 04:06:11 amI think she gets a fair bit of stick for it too.
Quote from: Wordsmith on November 17, 2008, 04:01:03 pmWouldn't this sort of fall under the idea of universal salvation? Because if Satan is forgiven, then every unrepentant, unregenerate is saved. I see no place in Scipture that tells us that Satan has the ability or even the desire to repent. God already knows what is in his heart. And according to scripture his destination is told. However there's a time when death and even hell will thrown into the lake of fire. But the lake of fire remains and was created for Satan and his minions. It really wasn't created for people.
Quote from: Pete on November 17, 2008, 04:26:01 pmThe key is, we are all forgiven. Everyone of us, no matter what we've done. But it is up to us to repent and accept that forgiveness. Here's a statement that will make our minds go ... You can be forgiven and still go to hell. How? Because it is up to us to repent and receive that forgiveness. There is no place in scripture that tells us that Satan will repent. But the question is not is Satan going to repent. The question is, has God forgiven him. I think the reason that this is such a hard thing for us to accept is because we have been trained to believe that repentance comes before forgiveness. But I'm not so sure that's true... Repentance is not required for forgiveness. Jesus demonstrated this to us when He said, Father forgive them, all the while these unrepentant men were doing horrible, unjust things to Him. Jesus didn't wait until they repented. He asked the Father to forgive them, right then. However, because the Bible tells us that Satan is and will remain unrepentant, God is not mocked, and Satan will reap what he has sown. But even so, that doesn't mean God hasn't forgiven him. So it's not the idea of universal salvation at all. It's the belief that we ARE forgiven, not because of our repentance, but simply because of what Jesus did on the cross. When we repent, we receive the benefits of that forgiveness.
Quote from: Pete on November 17, 2008, 04:26:01 pm I think the reason that this is such a hard thing for us to accept is because we have been trained to believe that repentance comes before forgiveness. But I'm not so sure that's true...
Quote from: The Lord is my banner on November 17, 2008, 04:57:51 pmYes! Because the kindness of God leads to repentance - therefore we must have received His kindness before we repented. And how did that kindness appear? In part at least His kindness manifested in forgiveness towards us. Then we repented - ie. "changed our mind" about God and ourselves.
Quote from: Pete on November 17, 2008, 04:54:17 pmI'm not really talking about repentance at all. I believe that we should all have repentant hearts, and be quick to repent. But what we're talking about here is forgiveness. Repentance is not the catalyst for forgiveness. Forgiveness exists because of what Jesus did on the cross, not because we repent. IOW, the causation for forgiveness is not the action of repentance. Forgiveness exists because of Jesus. Not because of what we've done, but because of what He has done for us.
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