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November 22, 2019, 04:15:57 pm

Truth Protestors??

Started by Leah, November 01, 2008, 12:52:01 am

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Prosperity

Quote from: Alpine on November 03, 2008, 06:50:55 am
I used to be a protester at abortion clinics, I was never arrested but I held signs and prayed with others outside them. I do not have a problem with holding signs outside an abortion clinic.

Now, my friend is still active with this group, in fact, they go on tours across the country and go to corners holding signs with very graphic images. They don't even go to abortion clinics anymore.

I really see what they do as ineffective, and actually counter productive to the cause, because it is extremely upsetting to people, especially with kids in the car. (I find it ironic that these people holding the signs probably don't let their kids watch anything remotely violent on tv yet they will with glee hold signs of aborted babies at every angle on street corners)

The best method for the pro life cause is education. If we educate people that the fetus isa  real living human being, not just tissue, that will go a lot farther than standing on corners holding graphic signs and calling on God to judge America.

It's at that point people dismiss us as nutjobs rather than someone reasonable.


The world always dismisses Christians as pro active Christians as nut jobs, but God doesn't and is God's opinion I am concerned with.  Neither does god have any appreciation Christians who criticize his children who the world calls nut jobs.

Christians need to learn who is for them.

Pete

Quote from: Prosperity on November 02, 2008, 11:02:19 pm
That is simple. the fist school in America was a Church and the first school book in America was the Bible.   The founding fathers never intended us to suffer a Godless school system.  Where do you get the idea that it is acceptable that for the public schools system to corrupt America's children with their Adam and Steve teachings?


Whose idea of morality would you like to see the school enforce?  Your's?  Mine?  Barack Obama's?  John McCain's?

The school is not for teaching Spiritual values.  That is the church's job in conjunction with the parent's.  The school is there to teach you that 2 + 2 = 4.

Now I agree that the school should not force my child to say that homosexuality is acceptable, and if they did, I would have to take some kind of action, likely, pulling my child out of that school.

Quote from: Prosperity on November 02, 2008, 11:02:19 pm

This Government is suppose to be for the people and not be working against the parents.


What about atheist parents?   Is the government supposed to be for those people too?  Or just the Christians?  And not only that, but which Christians?  Presbyterians?  Methodists?  Evangelicals?  Who exactly should the government be "for" in the case of schools?

Quote from: Prosperity on November 02, 2008, 11:02:19 pm
The Government has control of your children for most of daylight hours for over nine months of the year, so i guess they need to be teaching them the same basic moral values they are being taught at home.  Further, the government is teaching America's children values, Liberal values.  An education system  void of morality is destructive, but our education system teaches many evil values, which is a National tragedy.   


"Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old, he won't depart from it."  When Godly parents train up their children, which is their responsibility and not the school's, the Bible promises us that they will not depart from it.

I am a product of the public school system, not too many years ago.  The liberal values that the school attempted to foist upon me were of no affect to me, because my parents trained me up in the way I should go.  They, along with our church, did their job, of instilling Spiritual and moral values in me.  And now that I've grown, I have not departed from it.

"Jesus was not at all concerned with the government in His time.  As corrupt and immoral as the government was, Jesus went out of His way to show that He was not a threat to the immoral, corrupt government.  His Kingdom is not of this world."

Quote from: Prosperity on November 02, 2008, 11:02:19 pm
There are some major differences between the Roman Government and our Government.


There sure were.  For example, the Roman government was about a million times more corrupt than our Government.

Quote from: Prosperity on November 02, 2008, 11:02:19 pm
I believe God was very involved in the formation of our Government.  You might want to read a book called the Light and the Glory and another book, From Sea to Shining Sea.  Paul certainly got involved with the Government.  Do you think Christians are not to be an influence in our Government or we should just let the Government club us like baby seals?


But Jesus, our example, was not at all concerned with the government of His time.  He went so far as to tell us that His Kingdom was not of this world.  The US Government is not God's Kingdom, and it was never intended to be.

I believe, as Romans states, that there is no authority that is established that hasn't been established by God.

Quote from: Prosperity on November 02, 2008, 11:02:19 pm
But Cesar does not rule America.  The people are to rule America.


I thought God was to rule the Kingdom?

Quote from: Prosperity on November 02, 2008, 11:02:19 pm
Do you think is is right for the government to take your money to promote an unconstitutional agenda.


Do you think that everything Caesar did with the tax dollars he collected was upright and just?  And yet, Jesus said, "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's".

Quote from: Prosperity on November 02, 2008, 11:02:19 pm
Do you feel no sense of responsibility for electing Christian officials especially since Gods has made that option available to you and many Americans died to protect you freedom to do so.?   


  Tomorrow, I will gladly cast my vote for the people I feel should be elected to office.

Quote from: Prosperity on November 02, 2008, 11:02:19 pm
I see.  Blame the Christians again.  You do understand we have an adversary?  You are the one  of the few people I have ever met who claims to be a Christina and professes that Christians are known for their hatred.   


Sure we have an adversary.  An adversary who has hoodwinked Christians into believing that being known by what we oppose is the answer.  An adversary who has all but successfully drown out Jesus' words that we would be known by our Love.  An adversary who has convinced us that telling people that they're going to hell if they don't stop sinning is more effective than proclaiming the GOOD NEWS and realizing that it is the GOODNESS of God that draws men to repentance.

Quote from: Prosperity on November 02, 2008, 11:02:19 pm

I don't think I have know many Christians who deliberately just go out to offend people when witnessing, but in a way it is a moot point since Jesus has already said that if we simply preach the word, we will offend many.  Do you really think that Christians are responsible for people being offended at Christianity.  This is not consistent with what the word says.   



In many cases, yes, I do.

The word is offensive.  But aren't we also commanded to become all things to all people so that some might be saved?  Aren't we commanded to be salt, and to season our words?

Quote from: Prosperity on November 02, 2008, 11:02:19 pm

You know Pete, you are making some ridiculous accusations to make me out to be an idiot in a desperate attempt to justify what you believe.  I never once equated showing God's love to enabling sin and I must say is is not very loving for you to falsely accuse me of such a thing Bro. I would appreciate it if you would quit reading evil thoughts into what I write.  Thank you!

I am not saying this to hurt your feelings, but I know we don't see some things eye to eye.  I do see you  as having an attitude that is, at a minimum, indifferent to establishing public policies that discouurage homosexual life style.  As worst, I see you as someone who doesn't understand that having tolerance for the homosexual life style is not loving them, but rather it only leads you to be insinuative to their sin, which actually helps the sinner to be indifferent to his sin.  I also see you as someone who too often blames Christians for other people's bad decisions, while ignoring the real advesary.   I am not sure why you even want to associate with ue meanies, but I am glad you do.  If i am wrong, I really do appoligize!



You are, and I accept your apology.

Quote from: Prosperity on November 02, 2008, 11:02:19 pm

i am not avoiding it.  it is a hypothetical question that is designed to condemn anyone who pickets.



No.  It's a hypothetical question designed to challenge and make people think.  People run around saying they're just doing what Jesus would do.  And so the pointed question then is, would Jesus picket?  The answer is, of course not.  SO then the next question is, if we're striving to do what Jesus would do, as He is our perfect example, why do we picket? And when you think about it, that means that maybe, just maybe, people would have to do just what I've been calling for, which is to examine themselves, their hearts, their motives, and go to the judgment seat of Christ so that He could purge anything not of Him.  It's much easier to accuse me of condemning people than it is to recognize conviction and act upon it.

Quote from: Prosperity on November 02, 2008, 11:02:19 pm

So the only I can address it is in terms of whether Jesus would have forbid it.  Jesus never wrote the Declaration of Independence either.  Did that make writing it wrong.  I am certain that Jesus wold not condemn picketing and would approve of any picketing that saves the life of the unborn or some similar worthy goal.




What scriptural basis makes you "certain" of that?

Quote from: Prosperity on November 02, 2008, 11:02:19 pm

As much as you would be able to learn about something new about programing a computer from me.


Then we're just wasting each other's time.  It's clear from this statement that you see this as your attempt to correct me where I'm wrong, and not as an opportunity for us to learn from one another.

Nothing will ever get accomplished under those circumstances.
"There is no charge for awesomeness -- or attractiveness."

Alpine

Quote from: Prosperity on November 03, 2008, 09:18:41 am


So you think because your friend is a nice acting homosexual, then homosexualtiy is OK.  Does you friend hacve a byfriend.  If so, how do thay make love and what is the product of their love?  God loves your friend and so do I, but I have the same preblem with his life style that God does.  It is an abonination.


In answer to you other question.  I have known homsexuals.  I have witnessed to them includig my adopted Dad who abused and molested me statrting the summer after sixth grade.  So I expect I know what they are about a bit better then you do.  Everybody thought he was a great guy too.  People loved him.  People are easily deceived by true demonic nature of homosexauls.




Ah! I see why you take the issue very personally. I am sorry you were molested. However, it's not just homosexuals who molest, but also heterosexuals, my mother and wife could both attest to that.

When did I ever say homosexuality was ok? In fact, I said it is a sin. My point is bashing people in the face who are not even Christians with their obvious sin will not convince them of anything, other than we are bitter and angry.
As long as the Steelers themes smileys exist so shall my protest last!

Pete

Quote from: Prosperity on November 03, 2008, 09:18:41 am

So you think because your friend is a nice acting homosexual, then homosexualtiy is OK.


It's hard to have a conversation with you concerning this topic, when you keep making false accusations.

Nowhere did Alpine say that homosexuality was OK.  You asked him if he had a problem living next door to a homosexual.  Not whether or not he thought homosexuality was "OK".

Quote from: Prosperity on November 03, 2008, 09:18:41 am
In answer to you other question.  I have known homsexuals.  I have witnessed to them includig my adopted Dad who abused and molested me statrting the summer after sixth grade.  So I expect I know what they are about a bit better then you do.  Everybody thought he was a great guy too.  People loved him.  People are easily deceived by true demonic nature of homosexauls.


I am sorry that you had to go through that.  I can't even begin to imagine what that must have been like for you.

But you're doing much the same thing you just accused Alpine of.  Because of your experience with your adopted dad, you're saying that every homosexual is a horrible, child molesting monster.   But I suspect many homosexuals are just trying to fill the God-shaped hole inside of them, and they don't know how.

The Love of God can show them how.
"There is no charge for awesomeness -- or attractiveness."

Prosperity

Whose idea of morality would you like to see the school enforce?  Your's?  Mine?  Barack Obama's?  John McCain's?

Wold God's opinion work for you?

The school is not for teaching Spiritual values.  That is the church's job in conjunction with the parent's.  The school is there to teach you that 2 + 2 = 4.  Now I agree that the school should not force my child to say that homosexuality is acceptable, and if they did, I would have to take some kind of action, likely, pulling my child out of that school. 


You are wrong.  You are endorsing using tax dollars to send you child to Godless institutions what promote just about every sin there is.  Why not have vouchers so you can use your tax dollars to send you children to Christina schools?

What about atheist parents?   Is the government supposed to be for those people too?  Or just the Christians?  And not only that, but which Christians?  Presbyterians?  Methodists?  Evangelicals?  Who exactly should the government be "for" in the case of schools?


The Constitution guarantees us freedom of religion, not freedom from religion.  Go to the voucher system.

"Train up a child in the way he should go, and when he is old, he won't depart from it."  When Godly parents train up their children, which is their responsibility and not the school's, the Bible promises us that they will not depart from it.


When this was written, parents were the educators.  So if you are going to use this, then you will now have to apply it to the public educators.  Public education was never the will of God, but He can work with it if parents will, but demand morale excellence in their schools. 

I am a product of the public school system, not too many years ago.  The liberal values that the school attempted to foist upon me were of no affect to me, because my parents trained me up in the way I should go.  They, along with our church, did their job, of instilling Spiritual and moral values in me.  And now that I've grown, I have not departed from it.


Pete, no offence, but I see the effect the public school has had on you by some of the things you have said here. 

"Jesus was not at all concerned with the government in His time.  As corrupt and immoral as the government was, Jesus went out of His way to show that He was not a threat to the immoral, corrupt government.  His Kingdom is not of this world."

We have already been over this.  If you think it is the will of God for Christians to remain uninvolved in the Government of the United States of America, then I have noting more to say to you on this subject.

There sure were.  For example, the Roman government was about a million times more corrupt than our Government.


Even if this were true, did yo want us to go for the prize?

But Jesus, our example, was not at all concerned with the government of His time.  He went so far as to tell us that His Kingdom was not of this world.  The US Government is not God's Kingdom, and it was never intended to be.


I guess that God formed this Nation so Pete could sit at home and tell people that God does not want them involved in America; Government.  The indifference of America's Christian citizens is the one of the most destructive forces in out Country.

I believe, as Romans states, that there is no authority that is established that hasn't been established by God.

Even using your simplification in the application of this verse,  God gave the citizens in this County the authority of self determination.  In other words, He clearly established His authority in citizens of America.

I thought God was to rule the Kingdom?


You will have to flush this one out a little before I will comment on it.

Do you think that everything Caesar did with the tax dollars he collected was upright and just?  And yet, Jesus said, "Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's".


I don't live in ancient Rome.

Tomorrow, I will gladly cast my vote for the people I feel should be elected to office.

Will God have anything to do with your vote?

Sure we have an adversary.  An adversary who has hoodwinked Christians into believing that being known by what we oppose is the answer.  An adversary who has all but successfully drown out Jesus' words that we would be known by our Love.  An adversary who has convinced us that telling people that they're going to hell if they don't stop sinning is more effective than proclaiming the GOOD NEWS and realizing that it is the GOODNESS of God that draws men to repentance.

Gee, you know, I haven't personally never seen one person say "telling people that they're going to hell if they don't stop sinning" that to a sinner.  Do you run around with people who say these things or how exactly have you come into this knowledge about these mean old Christians?

The word is offensive.  But aren't we also commanded to become all things to all people so that some might be saved?  Aren't we commanded to be salt, and to season our words?


We havealsread been over this.  Try something new.

No.  It's a hypothetical question designed to challenge and make people think.


I have already thought about it and you have my answer.

People run around saying they're just doing what Jesus would do.  And so the pointed question then is, would Jesus picket?  The answer is, of course not.  SO then the next question is, if we're striving to do what Jesus would do, as He is our perfect example, why do we picket? And when you think about it, that means that maybe, just maybe, people would have to do just what I've been calling for, which is to examine themselves, their hearts, their motives, and go to the judgment seat of Christ so that He could purge anything not of Him.  It's much easier to accuse me of condemning people than it is to recognize conviction and act upon it.

I don't know what people run around saying.  on a percentage basis I have only met a few Christians.  I guess you get out more, maybe even enough to have seem most Christians doing these things.  I agree you should examine you heart and motives, but let me see to it myself as God directs.

What scriptural basis makes you "certain" of that?


Go ahead and believe that Jesus is against saving the lives of the unborn if you choose.

Then we're just wasting each other's time.  It's clear from this statement that you see this as your attempt to correct me where I'm wrong, and not as an opportunity for us to learn from one another.

You need some correction on this issue Pete.  ...but you are right, if you have determined not to listen to the good things I have told you, there is no point to your to responding.

Sorry the experience did not help you.

Peace Bro.

Prosperity

Quote from: Pete on November 03, 2008, 10:03:06 am
It's hard to have a conversation with you concerning this topic, when you keep making false accusations.

Nowhere did Alpine say that homosexuality was OK.  You asked him if he had a problem living next door to a homosexual.  Not whether or not he thought homosexuality was "OK".

I am sorry that you had to go through that.  I can't even begin to imagine what that must have been like for you.

But you're doing much the same thing you just accused Alpine of.  Because of your experience with your adopted dad, you're saying that every homosexual is a horrible, child molesting monster.   But I suspect many homosexuals are just trying to fill the God-shaped hole inside of them, and they don't know how.

The Love of God can show them how.


I did not mad an accusation.  it was a question.  ...and it is hard to converse with you on this because you have no idea what homosexuality is about.

It must be the mean old Christians fault.

Pete

November 03, 2008, 11:11:59 am #66 Last Edit: November 03, 2008, 11:23:45 am by Pete
Quote from: Prosperity on November 03, 2008, 10:23:54 am

Wold God's opinion work for you?


Well, sure.  But as this thread shows, what you believe God's opinion is and what I believe God's opinion is are apparently not exactly the same thing.

So whose idea of God's opinion are we going to enforce?

Quote from: Prosperity on November 03, 2008, 10:23:54 am

You are wrong.  You are endorsing using tax dollars to send you child to Godless institutions what promote just about every sin there is.  Why not have vouchers so you can use your tax dollars to send you children to Christina schools?


Because I do not believe that it the school's responsibility to instill Spiritual values into my children, and there is no scriptural support at all for such an idea.

If some parents believe God wants them to send their children to Christian schools, I support their right to raise their children as they see fit.  But I personally see no need to do so.  My opinion is that Christian children can and should be a light in the darkness of public schools.  We are in this world, but we are not of it.

Quote from: Prosperity on November 03, 2008, 10:23:54 am

The Constitution guarantees us freedom of religion, not freedom from religion.  Go to the voucher system.


Exactly.  Freedom of religion.  So how do we impose a specific religion in the schools when the Constitution guarantees people the right to worship as they choose?

Quote from: Prosperity on November 03, 2008, 10:23:54 am

When this was written, parents were the educators.  So if you are going to use this, then you will now have to apply it to the public educators.  Public education was never the will of God, but He can work with it if parents will, but demand morale excellence in their schools.


I am dumbfounded that you believe it is the school teacher's responsibility to instill Spiritual values in our children.  It is the parent's job to train up a child, not the school.  The idea that the school should train our children in Spiritual values finds absolutely no support in scripture.
Quote from: Prosperity on November 03, 2008, 10:23:54 am

We have already been over this.  If you think it is the will of God for Christians to remain uninvolved in the Government of the United States of America, then I have noting more to say to you on this subject.



So you're not going to address the issue that Jesus 1) was not involved with the government, and 2) said that His Kingdom was not of this world.  OK.

Quote from: Prosperity on November 03, 2008, 10:23:54 am

Even if this were true, did yo want us to go for the prize?



No.  Of course not.

Quote from: Prosperity on November 03, 2008, 10:23:54 am

I guess that God formed this Nation so Pete could sit at home and tell people that God does not want them involved in America; Government.  The indifference of America's Christian citizens is the one of the most destructive forces in out Country.


How effective has protesting been?  Take a look at the state of our world.  If protests and pickets were the answer to our problems, why are we in the sad state we are now?  Is it because Pete won't go out and protest?  Do we need more people pointing out other's sin and carrying signs?

If these protests were so effective, why are we in the mess we are now?  Christians have not been "indifferent".  They've been political activists for decades.  And yet, our world continues to grow worse.

Quote from: Prosperity on November 03, 2008, 10:23:54 am

Even using your simplification in the application of this verse,  God gave the citizens in this County the authority of self determination.  In other words, He clearly established His authority in citizens of America.


That's not what the verse says.  This is what it says;

Romans 13:1-2 (AMP)
1 LET EVERY person be loyally subject to the governing (civil) authorities. For there is no authority except from God [by His permission, His sanction], and those that exist do so by God's appointment. 2 Therefore he who resists and sets himself up against the authorities resists what God has appointed and arranged [in divine order]. And those who resist will bring down judgment upon themselves [receiving the penalty due them].

I didn't write that.  Read it real close.  "There is no authority except from God ... and those that exist do so by God's appointment."  That's a tough verse to swallow.

As wonderful is the US democracy is, it is not God's Kingdom.

Quote from: Prosperity on November 03, 2008, 10:23:54 am

You will have to flush this one out a little before I will comment on it.



It's pretty simple.  God is the head of the Kingdom.


Quote from: Prosperity on November 03, 2008, 10:23:54 am

I don't live in ancient Rome.



Neither do I, but that's not the point.  The point is when the disciples asked Jesus if they should pay their taxes, He told them they should.

Now again, do you believe that everything Caesar did with tax money was upright, just and Godly?  And if it wasn't, why did JESUS tell them to pay their taxes, even though He knew what they were doing with the money was evil?

Quote from: Prosperity on November 03, 2008, 10:23:54 am

Will God have anything to do with your vote?



Of course He will.

Quote from: Prosperity on November 03, 2008, 10:23:54 am

Gee, you know, I haven't personally never seen one person say "telling people that they're going to hell if they don't stop sinning" that to a sinner.  Do you run around with people who say these things or how exactly have you come into this knowledge about these mean old Christians?



You haven't seen them?  Really?  Are you paying attention at all?

Quote from: Prosperity on November 03, 2008, 10:23:54 am

We havealsread been over this.  Try something new.



Do you believe that it is necessary for us to season our words and be salt unto the earth?

Quote from: Prosperity on November 03, 2008, 10:23:54 am

I have already thought about it and you have my answer.



OK.  Let me help you out here.  Jesus would not picket.

So the next time you hear someone picketing saying they're just doing what Jesus would do, you can correct them.


Quote from: Prosperity on November 03, 2008, 10:23:54 am

I don't know what people run around saying.  on a percentage basis I have only met a few Christians.  I guess you get out more, maybe even enough to have seem most Christians doing these things.  I agree you should examine you heart and motives, but let me see to it myself as God directs.



OK.

Quote from: Prosperity on November 03, 2008, 10:23:54 am

Go ahead and believe that Jesus is against saving the lives of the unborn if you choose.

You need some correction on this issue Pete.  ...but you are right, if you have determined not to listen to the good things I have told you, there is no point to your to responding.

Sorry the experience did not help you.

Peace Bro.


Go back and read through this thread.  I have given you a scripturally sound basis for what I believe.  Your response has been an attempt to discredit me, with virtually no scriptural support for your arguments, but rather just an empty political agenda you are pushing.  When I ask you for scriptural support for your statements, you make a flippant comment, apparently because you feel you are superior in knowledge to me concerning this issue.

The bottom line is, God's Kingdom is not run by politics.  The sooner Christians realize that, the sooner we can get away from political agendas and get back about our Father's business.

One last thing...  You say Christians should learn to recognize who is against them, and who is for them.  That's good advice that you should heed yourself.
"There is no charge for awesomeness -- or attractiveness."

Prosperity

QuoteExactly.  Freedom of religion.  So how do we impose a specific religion in the schools when the Constitution guarantees people the right to worship as they choose?

I am dumbfounded that you believe it is the school teacher's responsibility to instill Spiritual values in our children.  It is the parent's job to train up a child, not the school.  The idea that the school should train our children in Spiritual values finds absolutely no support in scripture.
So you're not going to address the issue that Jesus 1) was not involved with the government, and 2) said that His Kingdom was not of this world.  OK.


I am dumbfounded as to how you have concluded that God wants you to place your children in the care of moraly bankrupt people.  Also, how you believe that a person can help but reveal their morale values by what they teach.
QuoteHow effective has protesting been?  Take a look at the state of our world.  If protests and pickets were the answer to our problems, why are we in the sad state we are now?  Is it because Pete won't go out and protest?  Do we need more people pointing out other's sin and carrying signs?

If these protests were so effective, why are we in the mess we are now?  Christians have not been "indifferent".  They've been political activists for decades.  And yet, our world continues to grow worse.


Then according to you method of measurement, Christianity has been a complete failure too. 

That's not what the verse says.  This is what it says;

QuoteRomans 13:1-2 (AMP)
1 LET EVERY person be loyally subject to the governing (civil) authorities. For there is no authority except from God [by His permission, His sanction], and those that exist do so by God's appointment. 2 Therefore he who resists and sets himself up against the authorities resists what God has appointed and arranged [in divine order]. And those who resist will bring down judgment upon themselves [receiving the penalty due them].

I didn't write that.  Read it real close.  "There is no authority except from God ... and those that exist do so by God's appointment."  That's a tough verse to swallow.

As wonderful is the US democracy is, it is not God's Kingdom.

It's pretty simple.  God is the head of the Kingdom.


You are blind to the application of this verse in general and specifically to the U.S.  If you want to start a separate thred on tis I will discuss it wih you.  Why do you bother to vote?


QuoteYou haven't seen them?  Really?  Are you paying attention at all?


You do like being insulting don't you.  Not very loving.  Bit to answer your question.  I have obviously been paying more attention to God that you have.

Do you believe that it is necessary for us to season our words and be salt unto the earth?

OK.  Let me help you out here.  Jesus would not picket.

So the next time you hear someone picketing saying they're just doing what Jesus would do, you can correct them.

If nothing else you are persistent.  Did Jesus condemn picketing?  Was picketing even part of the culture then.   Jesus didn't fill up his car with gas and go to Church either.

QuoteGo back and read through this thread.  I have given you a scripturally sound basis for what I believe.  Your response has been an attempt to discredit me, with virtually no scriptural support for your arguments, but rather just an empty political agenda you are pushing.  When I ask you for scriptural support for your statements, you make a flippant comment, apparently because you feel you are superior in knowledge to me concerning this issue.


My comments aren't flippant.  You do insist on trying to characterize me in a bad light.  I ask you again to quit it.  You simply do not understand what your errant understanding of the word is promoting.  ...and I know my knowledge is superior to yours on this subject.

QuoteThe bottom line is, God's Kingdom is not run by politics.  The sooner Christians realize that, the sooner we can get away from political agendas and get back about our Father's business.


However, the Kingdom of God belongs in American politics, unless you believe that Christians don't belong in American Government.  Where they are, the Kingdom of God is also there.

I am so sorry that you really do not understand. 

Pete

"There is no charge for awesomeness -- or attractiveness."

Prosperity

Unless there is a real reason for me to change my mind, this will likely be my last post on this thread because it seems a complete waste of my time, but I will leave you with some of the ideas that I see some here seem to be promoting.  Without further addressing any particular posts on this thread, I will describe the ideas I see being promoted this thread.  I do not say it is intentional.  I will let the readers judge for themselves.

1.  Christians should criticize and consequently judge all picketers based on the actions of a few.

2.  As Christians we should deminish the contribution that some picketers have made to promoting the Gospel and saving lives because we believe them to be too ineffective.

3.  Christians should not become involved in America's Government because Jesus was not a noted political activist in Rome, even though Jesus disturbed the religious and political types enough that they crucified him.  I think He was an activist in the extreme.

4.  Christians should not press for our law makers to establish laws and public policies that are unaccommodating to the homosexual life style for fear of offending them, being precived as being mean spirited and because it will do no good.

5.  Christians should be at peace sending their children to schools that promote the homosexual agenda with Christian tax payer dollars.

6.   That Christians are generally mean, hateful and are responsible for homosexuals making their decisions to live a homosexual lifestyle.  In other words, homosexuals would not be homosexuals if we could just get Christians to be nicer to them.

7.  That homosexuality is a benign lifestyle that does not threaten our children's and the moral fabric of our Country.  In other words, they are just a bunch of misunderstood nice people who are hurting anybody.

8.  Anybody who believes that Christians should get involved in the Governmental process of our country, and who publically denounce the homosexual lifestyle, should be picked at, criticized, diminished, attacked, judged and considered to not understand the higher morale calling of pandering to homosexuals.

9. That I somehow have a perverted view of, and have taken an ungodly stand against, the homosexual lifestyle.

10.  That promoting homosexuality does not increase peoples decisions to experiment with and/or to become homosexuals.   Gee, I wonder then why homosexuals are so activated to promote hoist their lifestyle on society?

11.   That Christains shouldn't pay too much attention about what God's word says about homosexuality in either the Old or New Testaments.

12.  That there are those here who think they have some secret key, reserved for the insightful select of the elect Christians, that will bring people out of the homosexual lifestyle. 

13.  That preaching homosexuality is sin, even though that is exactly what Paul did.

14.  The problem will be solved if Christians will just become friends with homosexuals, not because the homosexual will change, but because the Christians will see how nice homosexuals are.

15.  That wChristians should not be concerned about homosexuality because there have always been homosexuals, even thought God certainly became concerned with Sodom and Gomorrah.

16.  That, by in large, Christianity consists of criticizing other Christians who actually have the audacity to act on their beliefs.

17.  Christians should forget about the intent of the founding fathers concerning the expression of Christianity in public forums, including politics, education and other social groups.

18.  That Christians who for anything to upset homosexuals are hatful and only making the problem worse.

19.  Select of the elect Christians should denounce low brow Christians who do not display the approved amount of sensitivity.

Hmmm...maybe some here think that the Father got it wrong when he told the Son...

Hebrews 1:9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

okay, go ahead and pick away.

Prosperity


Pete

Wow.

If those 19 bullet points are truly what you got out of this thread, then you are 100% right.  We've clearly both wasted our time.
"There is no charge for awesomeness -- or attractiveness."

Alpine

Wow!

I was enjoying reading you two go back and forth! I was getting ready to make some popcorn but alas I just got home and missed all the fun!
As long as the Steelers themes smileys exist so shall my protest last!

Pete

Quote from: Alpine on November 03, 2008, 04:43:19 pm
Wow!

I was enjoying reading you two go back and forth! I was getting ready to make some popcorn but alas I just got home and missed all the fun!


:popcorn:
"There is no charge for awesomeness -- or attractiveness."

Alpine

As long as the Steelers themes smileys exist so shall my protest last!

Pete

"There is no charge for awesomeness -- or attractiveness."

Alpine

As long as the Steelers themes smileys exist so shall my protest last!

map4

Ok, I just have to throw one thing in the discussion that is now apparently over

I am not an advocate or defender of all public schools.

But, I do work at a public school and have two teenagers who attend. Not all schools are like what is described in some of these posts. I think it really depends on where you live. Our district does not teach homosexuality as the norm. I just asked my son, who took a health class a couple of years ago. He said they didn't really even talk about all of that (homosexuality, abortion, condoms, etc). they learned about the body...bones, etc. Not about all this other stuff.

We actually do try to 'teach morality' to our kids. Our teachers go to trainings on how to positively affect kids and help them. Each month we have a 'theme' and each week a saying. And each day a situation is discussed and talked about how to react in certain situations. These types of things are done at all grade levels.

I do have to add that we are not a huge district. We are predominately conservative and Christian.
I would guess that close to 85%, if not more, of our teachers are Christians of various denominations. And I know a lot of the area districts are like us. When you get to the larger districts there are more problems and I'm sure more of the other stuff discussed on this thread happens because of the diverse cultures and religions. And I can only imagine what innner city schools are like.

I just wanted everyone to know that not all public schools are bad. There is hope.


ETA...I do live in SE TX which probably does make a difference. Mostly republican and Christian.